School Committee - April 16, 2025
School Committee, 4/16/25 - Meeting Summary
Date: 4/16/2025
Type: School Committee
Generated: September 13, 2025 at 05:41 PM
AI Model: Perplexity
1) Meeting Metadata
- Date & Time: Wednesday, April 16, 2025, 7:00 PM
- Body: Sharon School Committee
- Members Present: Avi Shemtov (Chair), Dan Newman (Vice Chair), Alan Motenko (Secretary), Jeremy Kay, Georgeann Lewis, Julie Rowe, Adam Shain
- Location: Sharon Public Schools Meeting Room (hybrid/remote details not specified)
- Meeting Purpose: Regular business including policy, budget, educational program reviews, and school choice decisions
2) Agenda Overview
- Public Comments
- Correspondence Report (Shauna)
- Budget Discussion and Vote
- Culture and Climate Survey Presentation
- Elementary Math Curriculum Review
- School Choice Public Hearing and Vote
- Sharon High School Course Scheduling Presentation
- Review and Vote on Policy JIH (student questioning/searches)
- Other Administrative Matters (appointments, minutes, field trip approval)
- Executive Session: collective bargaining and litigation updates
3) Major Discussions
| Topic | Avi | Alan | Julie | Jeremy | Georgeann (Shauna) | Adam | Dan |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Budget Increase (3.98% vs 3.54%) | Advocated clear communication with Finance, cautious support of 3.98% (supports both votes procedurally) | Concern over Finance Committee cuts implied by 3.54%, no direct opposition noted | Participated in budget clarifications | Opposed full 3.98%, supports contingency for 3.54% | Not active in budget floor debate | Clarified curriculum funding via capital process | Not specified in budget debate |
| Culture & Climate Survey | Asked about cost, benchmarks, linking to student outcomes | Questioned police notification timing (in policy) but not directly on survey | Engaged in survey discussions | Asked about survey cost and linking to data | Asked for community input and clarified representation | Raised concerns about budget timing for curriculum | Participated in survey discussion |
| Elementary Math Curriculum Review | Emphasized early transparency about funding given budget constraints | Expressed budget concerns, supported delaying decision for input | Raised scheduling and curriculum questions | Not specified | Emphasized community input and funding coordination | Explained capital budget process relevance | Not specified |
| School Choice Enrollment | Supported cautious, data-driven approach; opposed immediate opt out vote; emphasized transparency | Moved to opt out due to budget risks and unmet student needs | Not specified | Opposed immediate opt out; requested more analysis | Interested in school choice benefits and risks; supported delaying | Supported opt out given fiscal uncertainty | Voted to opt out; highlighted budget and capacity concerns |
| Policy JIH (Student Questioning/Searches) | Respected subcommittee work but opposed reduced parental rights; favored broader public input; voted NO | Supported delaying vote; concerned about law enforcement notification; voted NO | Praised scheduling presentation; voted NO on policy | Voted YES on policy revision | Supported delaying vote for community input; voted NO | Voted NO citing concerns; noted scheduling issues | Led policy presentation; defended subcommittee process; voted YES |
| Sharon High Scheduling Presentation | Asked software capability; appreciated transparency | Asked clarifications on police-related policy | Praised presentation; valued collaboration | Minimal involvement recorded | Supported clarifications on tech representation | Raised PE waiver scheduling impacts; praised presentation | Presented policy, scheduling clarifications, and defended subcommittee work |
4) Votes
- Budget increase:
- School Committee voted formally for 3.98% with contingency plans for 3.54% budget[Section 1].
- School Choice Participation for 2025-26:
- Motion to opt out of school choice passed 4-3
- For opt out: Alan, Dan, Adam, Shauna (Georgeann)
- Against opt out: Jeremy, Avi, Julie[Section 1 & 2].
- Policy JIH revision:
- Motion to approve policy failed 5-2
- Yes: Dan, Jeremy
- No: Alan, Avi, Adam, Shauna, Julie[Section 2].
- Appointments and routine approvals:
- Dr. Patello as district tech program representative approved unanimously
- March 19, 2025, minutes approved unanimously
- SHS honor choir overseas trip approved unanimously[Section 2].
5) Presentations
-
Culture and Climate Survey (Joel and Dr. Jocelyn):
Age-appropriate baseline surveys conducted by SocialInsight across students, families, and staff; aims to track school climate and belonging with normative comparisons and longitudinal data[Section 1]. -
Elementary Math Curriculum Review (Dr. Jocelyn and Ms. Kemp):
A two-year review selecting a new curriculum for fall 2027, focused on research-based and inclusive programs aligned with district goals; requires careful budgeting and stakeholder involvement[Section 1]. -
Sharon High School Course Scheduling (Kristen):
Detailed explanation of year-round scheduling process using PowerSchool, challenges of meeting requests, contractual and capacity constraints, iterative runs improving schedule accuracy, and effects of PE waivers; well-received by committee members[Section 2].
6) Action Items
- Develop and provide more detailed risk, cost, and enrollment impact analyses regarding school choice before next vote[Section 1].
- Improve transparency and communication with Finance Committee on budget impacts and capital requests for curriculum and other initiatives[Section 1].
- Reconsider timing of policy JIH approval with more community input and possibly more open process discussions[Section 2].
- Continue monitoring culture/climate survey results to inform district improvement plans[Section 1].
- Continue outreach and collaboration on high school scheduling challenges to foster better understanding among committee, staff, and community[Section 2].
7) Deferred Items
- Final decision or reconsideration of school choice participation for upcoming school year to occur after further data analysis[Section 1 & 2].
- Policy JIH approval postponed due to community input concerns; vote failed at April 16 meeting[Section 2].
8) Appendices
-
Public Comments Highlights:
Georgeann thanked Dan for policy JIH work and expressed interest in school choice[Section 1].
Julie urged narrowing “exigent circumstances” definition in policy to immediate threats only[Section 1].
Some public frustration expressed about lack of Finance Committee outreach in school choice discussions[Section 1]. -
Correspondence Summary:
30 pieces since March 19, including IA contracts, library events, transportation, substitute pay, feedback on policy JIH, and METCO updates[Section 1]. -
Committee Roles & Contact:
Chair: Avi Shemtov; Vice Chair: Dan Newman; Secretary: Alan Motenko; Members: Jeremy Kay, Georgeann Lewis, Julie Rowe, Adam Shain[2]. -
Direct Quotes:
- Avi Shemtov: “Early transparency on funding is essential given district budget constraints.”
- Alan Motenko: “We should not pursue school choice in 2025-26 due to budget risks and our obligations to current students.”
- Dan Newman (on policy JIH process): “Delegating detailed policy review to subcommittee enables efficient progress while full committee makes final decisions.”
- Julie Rowe: “Understanding scheduling constraints improves collaboration and transparency.”
- Jeremy Kay: “We need clear data-driven enrollment and risk analyses before deciding on school choice.”
- Shauna Lewis: “More community feedback is needed before deciding on sensitive policies like JIH.”
- Adam Shain: “Curriculum funding belongs in capital budget process, requiring finance coordination.”
This comprehensive summary reflects the April 16, 2025, Sharon School Committee meeting’s substantive content, member stances, and key decisions.
Document Metadata
- Original Transcript Length: 171,897 characters
- Summary Word Count: 1,109 words
- Compression Ratio: 20.4:1
- Transcript File:
School-Committee_4-16-2025_9be3b928.wav
Transcript and Video
Good evening, everybody, and welcome.
This is the April 16th meeting of the Sharon School Committee and is being conducted remotely, consistent with an act relative to extending certain COVID-19 measures, which was just extended at the end of March.
So these provisions allow public bodies to meet remotely as long as reasonable public access is afforded so the public can follow along with the deliberations of this meeting.
So we are convening by Zoom.
The members of the public have been provided with access information.
Votes will be conducted by roll call, a request from Sharon TV that speakers turn your camera on if you can.
We would very much appreciate that.
And so we will start, as we always do, with public comments.
Adam, do you mind keeping time for that?
I am happy to.
Thank you. All right.
I see George Ann's hand, so I'll ask you to unmute.
Hi, thanks.
I just wanted to start the meeting by thanking Dan for all the work he's put into the JIH policy.
I look forward to hearing the final version.
And I also just wanted to recognize I'm really looking forward to the discussion on school choice tonight. I'm hoping for a robust presentation that can give us some good information with outcomes from other schools and benefits for our district.
Thanks for the time.
Thank you.
Okay.
Ms. Cresby, I'm going to ask you to unmute.
Thanks.
So I also wanted to recognize the work that Dan did between the first discussion and the second discussion of policy JIH and the improvements.
The one thing I do want to ask the committee to consider is defining exigent circumstances.
Because I am concerned that in the Fourth Amendment context, exigent circumstances can include things like needing to preserve evidence.
And I don't personally think there's any reason relating to evidence that police or any law enforcement officials should be able to engage with our students when they are questioning them without a parent presence.
So I would propose defining it as a situation in which there is an immediate threat to health or safety.
Which ought to cover all of the various examples that have been given, right?
You know, if there's a bomb threat, if there's a threat of a shooter, if, you know, it looks like someone is setting a fire.
There's lots of situations that would be captured by immediate threat to health or safety.
But it's clearly seeking to exclude the broader definition of exigent circumstances that exists in the Fourth Amendment context.
So thank you for allowing those comments.
Thank you very much.
Is there anyone else?
I don't see any other hands.
So I will move on to the next item on our agenda, which is correspondence.
So I'll throw it to you, Shawna.
Yes, thank you.
One second.
Let me pull it up.
All right. The school committee has received 30 pieces of correspondence between March 19, 2025 at 9 a.m. and April 16, 2025 at 9 a.m.
We have continued to receive letters from staff and community members which advocated for the school committee to settle the contract with the instructional assistants and highlighted the critical role that IAs play in the district.
Sharon Public Library sent a letter with an invitation to their grand opening scheduled for Monday, May 19, 2025 from 2 to 5 p.m.
We received the April editions of the SHS and Heights Library newsletters.
A parent wrote to express their concerns and inquire about transportation information and accommodations for a student.
We received a letter that expressed concern about substitute pay for school assistance with a recommendation to review and raise the current rate. The Sharon Pluralism Network provided information on their meeting on April 2, 2025 and plans for their next event and announced the creation of a Google group to help support collaboration across Sharon community organizations.
A parent wrote to express their concerns about the content of a video that may have been shown in a high school class.
We received a Boston Globe press inquiry regarding the Sharon High School football program. A parent wrote with feedback on policy JIH, student interrogations and searches, and made recommendations on the draft policy.
Hi, buddy.
Hold on one second. Hold on. Hi. One second. But sorry, guys.
A parent wrote with feedback on policy JIH, student interrogations and searches, and made a recommendation on the draft policy that was discussed at the previous school committee meeting. We received two editions of Millie's Metco newsletter that highlighted Metco's 59th birthday celebration, Metco's advisory Day on the Hill, and the additional $500,000 Metco supplemental budget.
Thank you.
All right. That's great. Thank you, Shauna. Is there a student representative?
I wasn't told that there would be one tonight, but is someone here?
Bueller?
Okay.
So then I guess that will be for the next week.
Great.
So now I would like to give it to Peter, who will give us the superintendent general updates.
Great.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's a great question. Thank you.
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We've had great participation from various stakeholders and some really strong candidates.
We had site visits occurred this week, and then we were looking for a decision announcement very soon as we work with the two finalists that visited.
Student services initial interviews occurred this week, and the process will continue with that after April break. The first, this is a rescheduled meeting of the Elementary Master Plan Working Group will be tomorrow night.
Also, there's a general reminder of we've been having some increases in absences due to extended vacations.
Just a reminder to do everything in your power to have your kids in school. We know there are some situations beyond control, but when you can schedule vacations and such over the vacation weeks, that really helps kids and the staff that are trying to support them.
We hope that you enjoy your April break, and we'll then be jumping into the final nine weeks of school.
Over breaks, we really try to take advantage of the time, and we'll have some building cleanings and inspections to inform, to start to think about our FY27 capital requests.
Town meeting is scheduled for Monday, May 5th and Tuesday, May 6th. The district budget is on the warrant article for town meeting, and your participation in this process is important.
So please attend, and I know I want to throw it over to Adam for a couple of words on that.
Thanks, Dr. Ptello. And Jane, can I share my screen quickly?
Okay.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Okay. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Thanks. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Thanks. So I think on this note, I just wanted to remind everyone kind of where we stand in terms of the current budget and the town meeting process.
So the school committee had voted a budget with a 3.98%
increase to our operation budget, and that was based off of the priorities allocation of a 4.0 increase to our budget.
The finance committee disagreed with that allocation and recommended a 3.54%
increase to sectors operating budgets.
And if that's adopted, it will mean a reduction of one high school teacher, a reduction of a second grade teacher at east, and 15% increases to our athletic and transportation fees. So the way the warrant is constructed, it is the FINCOM's recommendation that will be presented kind of as the budget.
So if we want to increase the budget to match that 3.98%
budget that we as a school committee had voted on, they'll require an amendment.
So just to kind of clarify where we stand, the kind of budget presented or the warrant article presented will be at the 3.54
level.
And if we want to try to change that, it will require an amendment.
Thank you, Adam. Jeremy?
Well, we also voted on 3.54 versions.
So we voted on a 3.98
and a 3.54.
So we talked about cuts and kind of what would be included in a 3.54, which is what's included here on the slide.
But the version, the operating budget that was voted by the school committee was a 3.98 budget.
There was no other budget voted.
There was an awareness and understanding of what would be cut at 3.54.
But the school committee's official budget proposal that was presented to finance committee is the 3.98% budget.
So just to be clear, the school committee understands what we will do in case of a 3.54 operating budget increase.
But the voted budget and recommendation of the school committee is a 3.98%
increase.
And that was based on the priorities allocation of 4%. Okay.
I mean, that wasn't how I interpreted it. I thought we were sending two recommendations at two levels.
No, you can refer to the minutes. Because I definitely don't support a 3.98% increase.
We can, I don't recall your vote, but we can look at the minutes.
But that was, that was the official budget that was voted.
And you can refer back to the slide as well to show that administration did not support the 3.54% cuts, but was letting us know what would happen in the eventuality that the town decided to vote a 3.54% operating budget increase.
Right. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Right.
We voted, we voted on, I think it was option 1B.
I think was the, there was, there was a couple options presented.
So we, I think we all voted it was option 1B. And then we voted on like sort of a package that would be the extra roughly 250,000 that would have to get us to the 3.54%
if that's what the town wanted.
But those were, that was, it was like two parts, not, not a single thing.
Right.
That was my understanding as well.
Right. So our budget that we voted on was the 3.98%.
And then we also voted in case we have to go to 3.54%.
We already had those fee increases and cuts already to go.
So, all right, Avi.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't, I guess it goes without saying that I support a 3.98, given that as a member of voting member priorities, I was one of the four members.
I think there's a number of those, I think there's a number of, you know, that's not something that's really important. But I do do just want to, I do just want to say, I think to some degree, the discussion we're having right now is semantics.
But I do think it's important semantics. And I think Jeremy's understanding is, is right and fair.
Jeremy, I do remember the vote, and you voted in favor of the budget. But to the point that you're making tonight, that budget included the list of cuts, because if you remember, these versions each had a different set of what would happen at the 354 number.
And to Jeremy's point, as he's stating tonight, he doesn't support the 3.98.
I think it's I think it would be unfair to characterize that vote then as his vote, which was affirmative, as automatically then supporting a 3.98. So I agree.
My understanding was the same as Jeremy's, that we accepted a packet.
We accepted a this is what 3.98 would look like. This is what 354 would look like.
Four of us voted or five of us voted yes on that budget.
Six. Six in the end that voted.
I mean, we voted a couple of versions and maybe there were some duplicate votes there. But again, I just want to I do think that it's it is fair to say we could have taken a vote at a 3.98 and only a 3.98.
We didn't. We took a vote on a version of our budget that showed what would happen at both numbers.
So and I think in.
In defense of the point that Jeremy is making here, if that had only said 3.98 without those cuts, I think what Jeremy is saying and Jeremy, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You would not have supported it just the 3.98.
So so in fairness, I don't think we should characterize this as having voted a 3.98 budget without recognizing that we voted.
We voted at both levels.
I view it the same way Jeremy does.
OK, well, I'm glad we clarified it because I I didn't.
I didn't.
I saw it more the way Adam did. But regardless that there is a budget with a 3.9 percent increase and there is a budget that the Finance Committee is recommending that's in the warrant that everybody should have gotten in the mail today.
That's a 3.54 percent increase.
So that is what will be presented to the town.
And in order to have the town look at the 3.98
percent increase, we will have to do an amendment at town meeting.
Bobby, did you have something else?
OK, so anybody have any other comments?
Appreciate the clarification, gentlemen.
Thank you very much for that.
OK, the next item on the agenda will be the culture and climate survey update.
Think is that Joel?
I don't know who it is. That was it.
I'm doing something else, but I know for the.
Yeah, I have it, Joel.
Yes, thank you. As mentioned in previous meetings, we're partnering with a company called, it used to be called K-12 Insight and now they're called Socialist Socialist.
And they are they do school climate and engagement surveys throughout the region and even the nation.
And so we've worked with them to to develop a survey that we're administering to all of our students.
There's different survey versions for younger kids. And then there's a K through two, a three through five and then a six through 12.
Those surveys were sent home to families so that they could review them and opt out if desired.
And they'll be conducted.
They started being conducted today and tomorrow.
We'll also be sending out family surveys as well, which have a lot of parallel questions as well as staff surveys, which we are still working with the SDA to just get approval on that. But this should provide some really great information about student giving feedback on how they experience the school and the district, what type of engagement they're feeling that will inform future school improvement goals in the district plan.
A big part of this is a big part of our district plan is around a sense of belonging.
And that's one of the primary reasons that we're doing this. And this survey will be much more kind of official than surveys we've had in the past. So we're looking forward to getting the baseline this year and then using it for improvement efforts going forward.
And that's it for me.
Does anybody have any questions?
Jeremy?
Didn't we see a similar survey last year or was that a different baseline?
Last year, there were homegrown surveys.
This one is, you know, we get the benefit of a company that really develops survey questions as it's in a, you know, in a kind of professional manner with research-based manner.
It also allows us to break down the results and dissect it in more sophisticated ways than our homegrown survey.
It also allows for complete consistency across not only the elementary schools, but across the district.
So each survey has versions of questions that are developmentally appropriate for different levels, but have parallels.
So it's just going to allow us to kind of have a more sophisticated analysis and greater consistency to measure improvement efforts.
So what action items are going to be driven by the results of this survey and how much did it cost to bring in this third party?
The cost, I believe is, Helen, do you remember what that cost was? Was it $15,000, I think?
But our district plan is centered, especially our goal around equity is centered around, you know, whether or not we're developing a positive school climate, whether students of all grades and backgrounds and disability status have a strong sense of belonging.
So that those efforts each time we'll be able to look at the actions that we're taking and seeing if they're impacting those measures on our survey and then take additional actions to improve things more so. Also, the survey provides a launching point for other methods, whether it be focus groups or other kind of, you know, additional kind of questions, but it gives us a baseline each year.
And just thinking about best practice with these things, what are our targets going into the survey?
So what are some of the key questions and what level do we hope to achieve?
Right now we're looking for a baseline, but...
Right, but like a baseline is not helpful because...
Just so you know...
We could already be doing well.
Like, how do we define what well would be on these questions?
Can I just jump in? I did send to the school committee, like, the email just to make sure everybody...
Did everybody get the email that had the links to the surveys?
Okay, just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
Thank you.
Yeah, did you...
I'm not sure what...
Right, so...
If we think about it, like, the survey will come back with some answers.
Correct.
We should be thinking about, like, what a good level should be for that, right?
Rather than saying, here's what it is now, let's improve those deltas.
Or...
So, kind of like, what are aspirational targets and which questions are we focused on in the survey?
Yeah, I think certainly when we get the results, we'll be looking at seeing areas that...
Where we did exceptionally well.
And those might not be the...
Those would likely not be the areas that we would target for improvement.
And then there are these areas that clearly are where we didn't do well.
And we would target those areas for improvement.
And then the areas in the middle, we would, you know, want to grapple with more and decide if there's any areas that, based upon what we believe to be a solid score.
One thing that the benefit of working with this organization, that they also can give us information on how other...
They won't give us specific names of other districts and such, but what is a...
What tends to be, you know, a high score in districts beyond ours.
Okay. So, it'll have... So, we're going against benchmarks of other districts that do the same.
That makes sense.
Yeah. They work with hundreds of districts, so they'll have that information as well. Okay.
Thank you. Jeremy. Alan?
Yeah, I just wanted... I guess Peter maybe addressed it at the end. But, Jeremy, I think your question is valid, but I think it's entirely premature.
I don't know why we're worrying about that at this point.
I think the whole purpose of hiring an established industry-leading survey company is because this is what they do all day, every day for districts all across the country.
If they don't give us some kind of benchmarks in the sense of what the range would be, then I think we have reason to go back to them and say, what are we paying for?
But I think let's wait until we get the results in, and then we can worry about whether or not we've gotten the information we expected from it.
I'm going to... Jeremy, I'm going to let Avi go, and then I'll get back to you. Is that okay?
Yeah, that's fine.
Okay, Avi. All I was going to say, and I don't think...
I don't know how much value it is to go too much to back and forth here, but I just wanted to say to Alan's point, though, I think Dr. Botella...
I mean, I put my hand up, and then I put it down, and then I put it back up because I think Dr. Botella did speak to it at the end there.
But I think it is far from premature to ask what good is. So when we talk about what areas we felt like we did well on, the point is what's well.
So I think it answers the question, Dr. Botella, at the end there.
That we're relying on this third party to establish relative to other districts what well is.
But I certainly, Alan, think that that's an important thing to establish before going in, not after.
Because if we think 80% positive answer on something is good, and everything comes back above 80%, then I guess we're good across the board.
If we establish that 80% is good, and everything comes back below 80%, I don't think it would be right to discard the best scores and only focus on the less. I think it would be right to recognize that then everything's bad. So it sounds like the third party, it sounds like the $15,000, I can't speak to whether or not that's a good value or not compared to what these things cost. But I can say it sounds like what we're paying for is an improvement over previous surveys in that they will provide us with more than just questions.
They'll provide us with benchmarks to aim at and what industry-wide or hopefully comparable districts.
I guess that was going to be my other question was, are we relying on them to sort of show us what other districts are comparable?
And are we doing back-end work ourselves to see if we feel like those districts are districts that we, in these departments, hope to be compared to?
You know, I know I've spoken to administrators before who make the point that belonging is a good thing.
It matters. Hearing people say that they feel belonging is certainly a worthy thing to find out if the people in our school feel that way.
However, if we're making folks feel like they belong while also failing them in other metrics, there's something uniquely bad about that. Because they feel like, hey, this is great, this is happy, but it's not actually going well.
So I guess, like, you know, I see a value in measuring this.
I also want to make sure that we're looking at the districts that we would be comparing ourselves to as far as what is good and understanding if those districts are, in fact, performing the way that we hope to perform.
And if we're being honest with ourselves about what the other metrics we need to measure in the groups that say they feel like they belong, because simply measuring whether or not folks are being made to feel like they're getting good services, I don't think is a fair measure of whether or not they're getting good services.
Yeah, I guess I would just ask people to take a look at the survey and ask yourself, first of all, would you want to have a sense of how kids perceive these different questions?
Because to me, there is some great value.
If you look at the question, I want to know, like, what kids think about those things.
I think there's a, there's a, there's a, just a beginning value in that itself.
And yes, I agree. We need to also, in order to really target improvement efforts, look at, you know, what, what ratings relative to other districts, you know, are deemed to be strong and use that information as well.
Adam, can you hold on one second?
Dr. Jocelyn, did you want to jump in on this?
Yes, please.
Thank you. So I just want to kind of like address, so in terms of partly Jeremy's question, and I think Alfie kind of highlighted some of those points.
So when you get, when you do a survey, you, it is good to have number one, three things, right?
Or really four things we're looking for. Number one, we do need some kind of baseline data. So the first administration of the survey helps to establish that baseline, which then we use as an initial reference point for future comparison and growth.
And Dr. Botello want to continue to essentially have those surveys almost on a regular basis.
So you do need some kind of baseline data. Number two, that company will provide us normative comparisons so that compare district results against state, our results against like state and national norms for the survey.
So you can, you can, you can look at, okay, kids across the country or across the state feel this particular way with our students feel this particular way. So we have, we will have that information.
Then that also, as you do it as on a yearly basis, for example, then you'll have the benefit of year to year trends.
So it'll measure improvement over time by comparing the current survey data to the previous years and previous years and previous years so that you see how we're doing longitudinally as a district in all those measures that we're trying to, we're trying to measure.
And then you also have to think of like, we have our district improvement plan and school improvement plans that embed our internal goals and priorities.
So the result from that survey will help define, in a way we'll define what good results are based on those priorities.
And then whatever goal and action steps will hopefully make their way into the development of data-driven improvement plan, both in terms of district improvement plans and school improvement plans.
And then frankly, the other piece also is, even if you have good results, whatever that's defined now, you really can use those good results for actionable improvement.
So even high scores will then highlight for us areas that we need to sustain, continue to do well on, and then lower scores, obviously, will clarify priorities that we need for targeted interventions and support.
So I think what we're doing right now in terms of what we're doing right now in terms of with this company is just going, you know, all out to get high quality data from a company that does that particular, that's their core competency.
That's what they do for a living.
And it will give us baseline data, normative comparisons, and then that year-to-year trend that we need. Thank you, Dr. Jocelyn.
Adam, you've been so patient.
Thank you, Julie.
So I have some experience with survey research and this type of survey.
I think another challenge in this case in terms of defining kind of good-bad as we go into it is answers to survey questions can vary fairly wildly, which is why those kind of relative kind of responses and scores is so important.
Like it really, to Dr. Jocelyn's point, helps you understand where you are to other districts or companies.
I think a good framing might be oftentimes within these sorts of surveys, you have different modules that allow you to focus on different areas.
You obviously can't ask everything that you would ever want to know because it's just too much. It's too overwhelming. And so understanding where our focus areas are and which modules we've selected might be kind of a good framing to understand where we're focused and where we're interested.
This being the first year, it might be a more generalized kind of baseline survey.
But I would expect us in the future, in addition to using that baseline, to also be able to focus on kind of specific modules where we want to kind of dig in and get more information.
Thank you, Adam.
Jeremy?
Yeah, I mean, I think those are helpful. I think that understanding that there are benchmarks is great.
I've done a lot of survey work as well.
And, you know, it's hard to know what like a good net promoter score is, right?
So you look at others in your industry.
So I think the benchmarks are valuable.
And, you know, that'll be a good reference point. I just usually you want to come up with kind of defining what good is before you do the survey so that you're not retrofitting to the data.
But I think benchmarks are probably the best way to go. So I think that that approach makes sense.
Avi? Yeah, and I just want to say that I have no problem with a survey that measures students' happiness, feeling of belonging.
You know, looking through the survey, I think that those are great things to establish benchmarks on and see if we're continuing to make kids feel that way and making more kids feel that way. My point is, looking at the survey, Dr. Patel, like, I would say, for example, asking third graders, do you feel prepared for your next grade?
Is it? That's a great question.
If we're then following up on how the kids that respond to yes perform the next year?
Because to me, what's an interesting thing to be measuring in that question is, are we accurately making kids feel prepared?
If, in fact, we see that 89% of kids say that they feel prepared for fourth grade when they're in third grade, and then we see that only 71% of kids show the growth that we want, then to me, we would have identified not only that our kids are not prepared, but also that we're something about how we're communicating to them is making them believe they're prepared for something that they aren't.
So to me, I just wanted to point out that these things, to me, have a lot of value, but they have a tremendous amount more value if we're then looking at other metrics and seeing if our making students feel a sense of belonging and happiness and safety correlates with their happiness and their safety and their growth. But that's one of the reasons we chose this company instead of doing homegrown surveys is we're able to connect the survey data to, not to their names, but to their ID numbers, which then can connect to other data that we collect as well.
So we're, you know, we're able to see some correlations between how they perform on a certain question on the survey and things and how that, how they might connect to their scores or their grades.
Now with elementary, you know, that there's, there's limits to that because we don't quantify stuff all the time, but we do have much greater capacity, capability of making connections between how they respond on the survey and other measures that go beyond the survey.
And that's tremendous.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Dan. Hi, Dr.
Patel.
Is the, is the open response comment at the end of the survey, something that the company is required, or is that something that we're choosing to do? Because I asked for a reason, because I've seen many of these surveys come and go.
And often in the past, we've gotten quantitative data from the survey itself, which I assume is the major value of it. But then some respondents inevitably leave comments.
And I've noticed that some of the interpreters might not know exactly what the data tells them. So they just go to the comments and then the comments just receive a wildly disproportionate amount of attention.
And it kind of takes over the survey and people are trying to parse words.
Do we need a comment section?
Is that something we're choosing to do? And how are we going to control for that risk in this survey that it doesn't just like take over the survey and that we're really focusing on the quantitative data? Yeah, I guess we're trying to focus on the use of the survey at the, you know, building and district level.
So we certainly, we can, we find value in having an opportunity for people to provide some commentary narrative.
It allows us to, you know, consider perhaps additional questions in the future or consider digging into certain areas.
It's certainly not the, the, the major part of the survey is this, it's quantitative aspect to it. But I don't think we're at the building level that we will, you know, over emphasize or not use that in a, you know, kind of a measured way.
So, but I think it does provide value to us. So, yeah, so we did choose to have at least one or two commentary questions.
Hey, if there aren't any other more comments or questions, I would like to pipe them. So, just on that note, Dan, so I've, I was in marketing for a long time.
And I think the comments really make surveys kind of spark.
Like, then you're seeing how people are interpreting what you asked in the survey.
Sometimes they're giving you additional information that you wouldn't have thought of. So I was, I was actually going to say the exact opposite, which is, I hope there's a lot of space for comments because I think those are the most interesting.
The second question I had was, would we have the ability to, I think we must be able to do like a cohort.
So like, we do third graders this year, and then next year, fourth graders.
So we, it's sort of what Avi was saying, but just in more general, like, if we do this for a couple of years, we'll have information.
Like, as the kids go on in school, and we might be able to find some valuable information.
Like, if everything suddenly tends to drop off in seventh grade, then we know that, you know, like, if it's consistently falling off in seventh grade, then we, I'm just picking seventh grade.
I'm not picking on seventh grade. But I think that would be, like, kind of valuable information.
Yeah, we'll certainly be able to do that.
And we probably should be able to do more of a true cohort versus what we might typically do with our own surveys, which might not take into account that certain kids have joined us and certain kids have left.
But because it's more sophisticated in its implementation, they should be able to do more of a true cohort that discounts for those changes in kids across the, you know, years. That's great.
All right. Well, thank you guys. And thanks, committee, for a really good discussion.
I appreciate hearing everybody's thoughts.
And now I'm going to, I believe, Dr. Jocelyn and Ms. Kemp are going to give us an elementary math curriculum review update.
All right.
Am I right about that?
Yep.
And I definitely invite Ms. Kemp.
I can see her. Hopefully, I'll give her a couple of seconds to start.
But I'll just start in terms of, so it's that exciting time when we're really getting ready for a review, a program review of our elementary mathematics.
And then the purpose of the discussion really right now is just to provide the committee and the public just a high-level overview.
This is a two-year process.
It's a two-year process, but we wanted to start it very early because it has all kinds of implications, including budgetary, and also just be upfront in providing as much information in the front as possible.
So it's going to be pretty short. So it's going to be pretty short. And the goal is, as we go through that program review, we will continue to update the committee and the public.
So basically, the goal is to look at our elementary math programming so that, in the end, we can select and implement an elementary math program by September of fall of 2027.
So now, why do we engage now?
Like I said before, we want to take things early and not do things last minute.
The current contract for our current math program ends on June 2027.
And we don't want to get into a situation where, because we're not taking things early enough, that we just have to re-upper the contract just because we didn't have enough time to do our due diligence way ahead of time. And then the second thing was that the last elementary math program review was over 10 years ago. So the goal of that review really is multi-part.
The first one is we want to make sure that as Dr. Botello continues to lead us in terms of the instructional vision for the district, as we use data to surface the needs of our students, we want to make sure that whatever program that we use is aligned with the district's instructional vision.
Also, we want to make sure, because the research continues to evolve in terms of how math is taught and how kids acquire mathematical reasoning skills.
We want to make sure that the math programs that we use and the next one continues to be research-based, continues to be empirically validated.
And then also, as important, really, that we draw from the list of the high-quality instructional materials from DESE, because these have been vetted.
And then also, if down the road we were to apply for particular grants around math, often you're not eligible as a district unless you're using high-quality instructional materials.
And so, again, we have several goals.
Number one, like I said, alignment to standards, making sure that we continue to align our math instruction to state standards, which is currently the common core in the math frameworks.
Making sure that we continue to align our math. Making sure that we continue to align our math. Making sure that the curriculum is relevant, that we keep instructional content current and reflective of recent educational research.
And also making sure that, as much as possible, we make data-driven decision-making so that we'll have enough longitudinal data on student performance to identify those trends and needs. And we actually have seen the success of that.
We essentially almost have a template in the implementation of, in our review of and selection of our reading program.
So we really, we essentially have a playbook that we're hoping to use as we begin the process of looking at our elementary math program and eventually piloting and selecting a new one. And I just want to head over to Ms. Kent to talk about the phase, phase one and phase two and going forward.
Thank you, Dr.
Jocelyn.
Yes.
Like Dr. Jocelyn said, we have a playbook and we'll probably follow a very similar process as the ELA program review.
In phase one, which will be next year, it'll be primarily a time of review and research where we will identify those research-based empirically validated, highly high quality instructional materials and narrow down to determine which ones will be options for pilot programs.
And we'll start to anticipate what type of professional development might need to take place even before implementation and recruit pilot teachers.
And, and always looking ahead to research what the potential costs would be for those programs that we are considering.
And we'll, back one, go back to my slide.
Yeah.
So phase two of this two year process will be a busy one, primarily around pilot and decision making.
We anticipate conducting pilots of at least two programs that would involve classrooms and grade levels across the district and across grade level.
We'll observe those classrooms, those pilot classrooms and watch the students and the teachers in action as they interact with the, the pilot materials.
We'll visit peer districts that are implementing pilot programs and gather feedback from parents, teachers and our families, teachers and students.
We'll have to finalize our budgetary needs, make a decision, develop and create a professional development plan, all in preparation for purchasing and preparing for implementation.
And, and be a busy year.
But, you know, with all of this, our commitment to excellence is at the forefront of this process.
And we really look forward to this opportunity to ensure that we have a robust elementary math program that ensures that enhances student outcomes and, and is aligned with district priorities.
We'll have a lot to do, but our first steps will be forming a community committee and defining our instructional vision.
But we're dedicated to a inclusive and transparent process.
So we thank you for giving us the time to update you tonight.
And we'll continue to keep you informed as the process unfolds.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: I appreciate it. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: And, um, Shawna. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Quick question.
So I love that we already have the playbook given what we've done with the literacy curriculum. What are the chances? Now, I know we have to think two years in advance. What are the chances that we would target a trial of the class of the curriculum with a group of students that had an elementary literacy trial?
So, so, so say the student was in first grade, right?
And they were in the literacy program that we did not go with.
That was not as robust.
I'm worried for that child that may matriculate to third grade. Right.
And now is in a trial for math curriculum that may not be as robust.
Does that make sense? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That makes sense. Um, I mean, we, like I said, we haven't randomized it, but that's a, that's a good point. Um, making sure, um, part of it is, yeah, we, it, it, it is potentially likely partly because when you think of like class list.
So if you have, you know, in one school, let's say cottage or whatever, East, you have like four classrooms, a hundred kids, you know, when they move on from, let's say first grade to second grade, it gets all, you know, it's all, you know, so the probability of like two or three kids. Being, you know, moving to that is, is a possible, but I do have to, to clarify though, the, the program that we discontinued, honestly, it wasn't because it was like horrible and bad. Uh, it just didn't meet our, our criteria.
And that's what the reason also we cut our losses early.
Okay.
Okay.
So we didn't like, we didn't continue with it through the end. And I think by like December or something, when we realized, okay, that's not going to make the cut. We, we pivoted.
Um, and, and so basically those kids still got solid instruction.
Oh, of course.
My kid was, my kid was in the pilot. Um, I'm happy with that. I'm just wondering, right.
What would happen if, if a kid was in the pilot?
If a kid kind of got pegged twice.
Right.
Like, yeah. Like, would we look at maybe implementing the trial in a school, which didn't have a literacy, or are we still going to, um, be taking, like, so, so pretty much, I believe all, like all the schools.
Were involved in the piloting because that's all idea of it. Mm-hmm . And, um, and yeah, honestly, like statistically, uh, one or two, you know, a handful of kids being, like, part of the pilot that were part of the pilot that wasn't selected.
Right.
Is, is it, you, you're absolutely correct. Okay.
But our goal is even like the program.
So there's a homework that's going to be done ahead of time. Mm-hmm . So that even the programs that we pilot are going to be programs, number one, that are part of the high quality instructional material. They've been vetted already.
Right.
And then they're going to be, uh, programs that are empirically validated, both in terms of the research and an outcome that they've observed.
So these are going to be like the kind of programs that you can't really lose. It's not, we're not looking, we're not trying to compare bad and good. Frankly, we're just going to be comparing good and better.
And often you could have better and better. You just have to find, okay, which one is the best, best fit for sharing as a district.
Okay.
Thank you for the clarification.
I, yeah, I, I was just thinking about that. No, it makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks Shauna.
Uh, Adam.
Thank you, Dr. Jocelyn and Ms. Kemp.
Um, super excited that we're looking into this.
Um, I think your point that we haven't had a review in, uh, over 10 years is, uh, super apt and I'm, I'm super glad we're doing it. Um, one thing that jumped out to me that, um, maybe I'm a little concerned about is just that we're waiting until phase two, um, to get any budget information.
Um, I would actually assert that we need that immediately, like probably within the next four or five months.
Um, so that we can make sure to include this within our capital budget requests.
Um, it's not a request for this year, but we want to get kind of that, that line item on so that kind of we can start incorporating that into our planning.
Um, I, do we know offhand?
So obviously the, the ELA curriculum was a sizable investment.
Um, do we know what level of investment kind of this math curriculum would be? So, so we don't.
So I think, so you are, you definitely have a good point. And I think one approach to this is let's say we select three, which is likely the number. One approach would be talking to the vendors ahead of time saying, if we were big, if, if we were to adopt your program, what's the overall, what's the cost approximate.
And then, so you'll end up having like product a product B product C, we could, I could conceptually see us providing three scenarios, um, to the school committee, knowing that it's likely we're going to end up with one, but at least, but you wouldn't have like a firm number.
You would have basically three potential scenarios.
Yeah, I think it would be helpful even in, in that sort of case to have a range, right?
If we know it's going to be X to Y. Um, and this also, uh, again, like, I, I think this is very different if we're talking about, um, you know, $10,000 versus $50,000 versus a hundred thousand.
Like I, I don't have a great sense of what a math curriculum costs.
So I think both bringing that to the table, so we understand the level investment and so that we can reflect that appropriately, um, in the, the capital request.
And there was definitely some back and forth around the ELA, uh, purchase around kind of where that should be included.
And I think within capital outlay, it was kind of discussed and agreed upon that, yeah, this is something that qualifies for, um, kind of our, our capital requests, um, and should be there and should be present within the planning so that we can incorporate it into the town budgeting process.
So I think we do need that, uh, on the earlier side relative to, to kind of what was presented.
Yeah.
Very good point. Yeah.
We'll definitely.
Take that into. Yeah.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: That's a very good point. So we'll, again, like I said, we are, we're totally at the early stage, but once we kind of identify.
The programs that we should be able to provide a range just for discussion purposes and for like to, to give the committee an idea what we're looking at as far as expenditure potential.
Thank you very much.
Uh, Jeremy.
Um, thank you for the presentation.
I had, um, a request and a question.
Um, so I know that when we assess the reading curriculum, we judge them based on survey results.
Um, I was hoping that I know it's a little easier with math than reading, but then we could also layer in some quantified.
Here's how we think that they performed.
Um, I don't know what type of quantification we could do, but. Ideally in, in addition to a survey of how students felt about the material, something around any quantifiable results if possible.
Um, and then I did have a question about.
I think it was instructional vision and how we go. I know that I think that there's three curriculum that DSE has determined are high quality in Massachusetts for elementary school.
And, you know, they all have different trade offs. So as you think about the instructional vision, what are the different trade offs you're thinking of between those, uh, curriculum and what are we prioritizing?
Can you clarify the question, Jeremy? I'm not sure. So there's three high quality curriculum.
Yeah.
We haven't, we haven't looked into any, like we, we just starting.
So we.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, and like, how do we think about the trade offs between the different curriculum?
So.
Help me understand what you mean by trade offs.
Like.
So, you know, I mean, that's, I'm trying to unpack, like, you know, you mentioned that it would be, um, instructional vision.
Like, okay. Like how do you think about instructional vision and then applying that to the different curriculums which have different strengths?
Oh yeah, I see. So the instructional vision is remains consistent.
And that's the same vision that drove us with the literacy curriculum.
Number one, we want to make sure that it's a program that is, like I said before, and I'm repeating it empirically validated meets all those criteria.
Number two, it's a program that, um, that, that is helpful for our students on IEPs.
Uh, so for example, one of the priorities that we had was to make sure, for example, so I'm going to use the reading program as an example is, um, so they're like, we remove any stigma for kids who may not be able to decode fluently and be able to, um, to read. So one of the things that we decided as an vision was program that we require that, that embeds the read aloud component and normalizes it. So that kids who may not be fluently reading won't be sent to a corner with the, you know, headset the old fashioned way and listening so that everyone knows that this, you know, Johnny can't read. Johnny can't read. So, um, we also wanted, um, programs that have embedded graphic organizers and make it normative as opposed to adding those to particular kids. Those same things in terms of vision are continued.
We also wanted programs that allow us for like, we teaching of vocabulary so that our EL students are able to, I am so sorry, I truly apologize.
Oh my gosh.
I have a four year old too. I get it. I know.
Oh my gosh.
We all have kids.
That's why we're here. Don't worry.
So it sounds like we, you know, we're prioritizing a curriculum where the learning experience can be tailored.
Um, right.
That, that, um, meets the needs of all learners, um, where students, all, all types of learners have access.
The, um, rubrics in the curate, um, which is the way that DESE rates curriculum, creates programs really will help us with that district vision in terms of being sure that students are engaging in the standards of mathematical practice.
And, um, there's focus and, um, there's focus and coherence that's aligned to, you know, um, the, yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Cause if you look at the rubrics, you know, somewhere like the full circle here and others are full circle here and just thinking about how we're thinking about those priorities.
Um, so it sounds like individualization is important.
Okay.
Good question.
Good question.
Thank you. Thanks, Jeremy. Uh, I see Dan next.
Thanks.
Uh, piloting is good strategy.
So I support what you're planning to do here. When we're discussing the budget implications, um, I would love to be able to get some information about grants.
Uh, if we're eligible for any grants as we're piloting these materials, or maybe after we select one. Um, if we're making a decision to not apply for grants so that we can pilot, I would just like to understand what the trade-off is so we can just be deliberate about it and what, what the opportunity cost is. But if there is any way to make use of grants, um, I think it would be wonderful to be able to do that, perhaps committing the one, uh, and then maybe springing for the money through capital to pilot the others. Um, I hope we can get creative here. Um, so thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks, Dan. Avi.
Thanks, Julie. Um, and thank you, Ms. Kemp and Dr. Jocelyn for the presentation.
Um, Adam sort of quietly slid in perhaps the loudest, uh, sound heard across town.
I'm sure, uh, tonight in kind of casually, um, talking about how we're going to pay for this as though it could come from capital.
So for me, I would like very early in the process, Adam says four or five months, I'd say like four or five minutes.
Um, not to know the dollar amount yet. I understand that that's not where we're at, but I, I think my first question in administration is how are we going to pay for this? Um, not meaning insinuate that we shouldn't, or that it isn't a top priority, but, but seriously trying to understand what the plan to pay for this is. Let's get ahead of this very early and understand a few things. So first of all, um, when we paid, when we received an appropriation at town meeting, which was a separate appropriation and it was voted on at town meeting to pay for the literacy curriculum.
There were a couple of factors that are important for people to understand.
One of those factors was that there was, and to be clear, our capital outlay, uh, committee, our finance committee did not love, although they ultimately supported the idea that we were, we were making the argument that there were turnbacks from previous projects that totaled much of that dollar value. So first of all, let's not ignore the fact that in this case, we're not looking at added up turnbacks from previous projects to even make the argument that there's capital that should be spent on this.
Also, let's not ignore the fact that we did hat in hand, go to our finance committee, our capital outlay, and then also at town meeting where the community was supportive of this ultimately, because they recognized that the, that along, you know, the state. Many numerous media outlets and certainly the educators in this district made very strong arguments that the literacy curriculum needed to be replaced.
I think if, if we're going to fund this, I think it's really important very, very soon to come with a plan as to how it's being funded, the source, how much it's going to cost, what we're going to be able to go without in order to fund this. And then certainly to make the argument as to why now, how, I mean, I understand in the slide, there was the beginning, I mean, there was the argument, but I think it's going to have to be a very strong argument because it's not a secret that for a couple of years now, we've had to make cuts. We don't yet know what the budget process will look like going forward because our largest bargaining unit does not yet have a contract negotiated for the next budget will have to work. And so these are things that the earlier that we can understand, the earlier the community can understand, these are things we should be taking into consideration as we make other financial decisions.
You know, this is something I'm hearing you guys say, and I respect your expertise and appreciate that you're here as early in the process as you are right now, telling us how important this is. I think we need to very early have updates at as many meetings as possible as to what that's going to look like ballpark it for us so that we can start figuring out what those funding sources are, because we don't want to end up in a spot like we did with literacy where, let's be honest, all the respected educators in this district, so all educators, because you're all respected, all the respected educators across the state were saying, we're, this is, like, guys, this is time. Like, this is, we're, we're a little too late here.
And so we certainly went hat in hand.
Our chair, Julie Rowe, had been pushing for at least two years at that point for these changes.
And again, as I'm sure our educators were as well.
So I just, you're here, you're here early in the process. That's appreciated.
Let's start getting to the nuts and bolts of how we're going to fund this, where it comes from, what the plan is. Let's not, Adam, assume that we can just sort of roll this into capital outlay, hey, tell capital outlay, hey, in a couple years, we're going to be asking for this money.
Let's acknowledge up front that this is not generally respected as a capital outlay request.
And so, you know, we got to, we got to start being honest.
If we're, if we're thinking the only way we're going to pay for this is as a capital request, then we should be getting in front of our finance committee ASAP to start having the conversations with them about whether or not they would even entertain that. And whether or not they would support that, because again, let's just be honest that that would be asking for a very creative solution from our town.
These things should be coming from our operating budget and we should be projecting.
This is how much it's going to cost. This is how many years it will last.
This is when we're going to need the money the next time.
So.
Thanks, Avi.
Alan.
Yeah, just a couple of comments. First of all, I want to thank Ms. Campbell and Dr. Jocelyn for the presentation.
I think it's important to remember what you've said at the outset. And that is, is that you've just begun to chart the course on this and that you've not even met really with the stakeholders who are going to be assisting you in this process.
And I think one of the things that you demonstrated, particularly Dr. Jocelyn with the literacy curriculum is that the end result was a thoroughly researched, thoroughly thought out, thoroughly well implemented initiative.
And I think we should give you every opportunity to do that. And I think questions really about the, the pedagogy of all this, I think are really premature since your group hasn't met yet. So I just want to remind folks about that. I share everyone's concern, however, or the agreement that where, where we sort of fell down with regard to the literacy curriculum was around the budget. And I just, and I'm not the one that knows the most about the finance process or the priorities process.
But the one thing that stuck out to me from those conversations was that there was a lot of discussion about the fact that the, the curriculum these days, as opposed to when I was in school, less involves textbooks and more involves a variety of electronic sources, primary sources, sources that educators cobble together to make a vibrant curriculum.
And I think because we've gotten away from textbooks, you know, textbooks are an easy thing that people can identify as a capital good.
I think when you get away from that, I think sometimes folks have a harder time seeing those things as potential capital goods.
And so as you begin to look at the curriculum, I don't want to have any say in that at this point, I would just ask you to think about particularly, you know, what is the curriculum rollout?
What are the materials going to look like?
I also think that might be an element of how the funding needs to be considered.
And I do think, you know, if you are going to come back to us regularly with updates, I do think I would tend to ask you to sort of stay more focused on the budgetary stuff.
And only come to us with the pedagogy stuff.
Once you really feel ready that you've had a chance to vet this with the, with the curriculum folks in the district, I think you've earned the right to have some, some leeway there.
Thanks. Thanks, Alan.
Adam.
Thanks, Julie.
I just wanted to kind of respond and clarify, given obvious comments.
When we were discussing the LA curriculum and we asked what the appropriate source or kind of area of funding should be, it was effectively agreed upon that the capital outlay process was the appropriate method for paying for or budgeting for kind of large expenditures from a curriculum standpoint.
And part of the issue is that with small curriculum changes, updates, et cetera, that may occur year to year and can be funded from the operating budget, that kind of large expenses can't be saved up. We can't save $50,000 this year and $50,000 the next year, et cetera, to get to a point where then we can fund a new curriculum, which is why the capital process exists.
That's what allows us to kind of borrow against the appropriate projects.
And I think the curriculum was determined because it's effectively meets the qualifications of the capital outlay process, which is, I think, $10,000 and five years of use. There are times where items are submitted to capital that we choose to fund in other sources.
So we may choose not to borrow for that money, but that's the kind of budgeting function in town that allows us to plan for large ticket expenses, roofs for buildings, expansions, also vehicles and things of that nature that kind of occur with more regularity.
So that's where I think we just want to get this in front of that planning body as soon as possible so that we can.
And I said that the timeline I stated was try to align with when the capital committee or capital outlay committee will be meeting next kind of in the next budget cycle.
I think that's where we want to get in front and then we can start having that discussion.
But, you know, we're realistically assuming this is quite an expensive purchase.
It's not something that we're going to handle directly out of our operating budget.
Avi? Yeah, Adam, I remember the conversation and I don't disagree that the things that you just mentioned were part of the conversation.
I don't know if we remember the outcome of that conversation quite the same way, but I'm not saying you're not the one who's right. What I would say is we're earlier tonight, we literally talked about a discrepancy between the priorities committee number and the finance committee's number on our budget that will require an amendment to be made a town meeting.
And hanging in the balance in that vote will be real life educators that have put their work in for our students in this district's jobs.
So to me, if that is your view, which I'm happy to support.
Listen, if capital outlay is in fact a supported way to pay for this curriculum, terrific.
But then let's you and I ask the finance committee to to let us go on the agenda.
I would gladly join you or Julie can and go and have these conversations ASAP. I mean, they've got to get ready for town meeting. But as soon as that's over, I think these conversations can be had there.
Let's make sure that all the parties involved who's financing this, how it's getting presented in front of town meeting and are educated.
Let's not have Ms. Kemp and Dr. Jocelyn working hard from the education standpoint to make the changes that they know to be needed without us also then figuring out how this is being paid for.
And so let's get clarification on that early so that we can be making the responsible decisions.
Similarly, you know, Alan, I do think that.
And again, I'm not not trying to be nitpicky here and I'm not just enjoying the sport of pointing out where I think some of your sort of commentary on other people's commentary is wrong.
But I think the pedagogy questions are fair. And by the way, as evidenced by the fact that I thought Ms. Kemp gave tremendous answers right away, because these are things that led to the decision and the understanding that things need to be updated. And so certainly these are the educators making the decision sitting right in front of us. And I think it's very fair early on to ask what's driving that decision and therefore what they're looking for out of it. Similarly, I think it is not putting the cart before the horse to say, let's figure out right now whether or not this is something we can pay for. Because if we look at it and say we can't pay for this, then let's not waste a whole lot of stakeholders and primarily educators that are already starting every day with a list of 70 things they can do and only 70 things they have to do and only time for 15 to 20.
Let's not have them chasing their tail if we can't pay for something.
Let's go figure out how this is being paid for. Thanks, Avi.
Anybody else?
Okay.
I just want to make a couple of comments.
This has been a really great discussion.
I will say that last year when we talked, when I had a conversation with the finance committee member regarding curriculum being a capital request, I was very roundly shut down on that.
And the explanation was that the curriculum is sort of different.
It's not computers or other kind of durable goods.
It's something different.
So this might be something worth discussing in a budget committee meeting, a way to go about this.
I had a question.
Sorry.
So my question for Dr. Tossalant or Ms. Cam, is this going to be coordinated with the upcoming changes at the middle school?
Because we've been hearing that the math there is going to change.
The seventh grade, I think, was going to be de-leveled and the teachers were receiving differentiated instruction.
So will this all sort of be like done together or how does that work?
No, this would be like two separate endeavors.
Okay. So elementary math curriculum is just standalone by itself, separate from the middle school math.
Okay.
Okay.
And then, so will there be a similar study done of the secondary math?
Is that on the agenda somewhere?
I can begin a conversation with Ms. Kelly and then kind of like looking at that piece as well.
I just wanted us to kind of like, part of the impetus on this is we currently have a contract for the elementary math curriculum.
That's actually expiring.
So in terms of not that we're going to address budget questions now, but we still, even if we didn't engage in that process, we still would need to come up with money to re-up the contract for our current math program.
So, which is why we might as well, we figured like we might as well look at what are the best programs out there and then go through that process.
But the money would still need to be somehow allocated for the fall 2027 math curriculum program contract.
So working backwards, you would probably be able to make a recommendation, say, December of 2026.
That's the whole same process.
Kind of like with literacy.
Okay. So, so this would be fiscal 27 budget.
I mean, fiscal 28.
Whatever.
27, 28.
So fiscal 28.
Yeah.
Whatever it is. Yeah. Great.
And then I had a question.
I think it was Jeremy talking about benchmarking on, and I know that was a good question.
And I know that we do like in the elementary, like the star 360s and similar tasks, like how will those be sort of being tracked?
So we can kind of look, compare the results based on the curriculum.
I don't even know if there's still star 360.
Yeah. I mean, I can defer to Miss Cape in terms of the data piece.
The, my, my first kind of like inclination is with a short piloting, you have all kinds of confirming variables going into, into the process, learning curve, you know.
So, so it's, that's what makes it tricky.
Because it's not like we're piloting for like a full year, usually.
You pilot for a few months, half of the year.
So, you, you know, when you, you could have like your, your treatment group, you know, you know, kind of like, and then decide, okay, those kids, we're going to give them tests. But often those programs would cover, let's say different, they'll cover all the standards, but they would cover the standards in different sequence.
So, you could have three good programs, but because they're covering the standards that in different, a different sequence.
Got it. You know, whatever tests you give would not be apple to apple for comparison.
You could argue that at the end, you could see like what standards are covered across all three and then you, you assess.
So, that's a possibility as well. But it's not going to be as clean, cutting, you know. Right.
Well, that, that actually makes quite a bit of sense.
So, that was it for my questions.
I think if we're, we're all done, I want to thank both of you for starting this.
This is, I'm really excited about this and learning about where we're going.
This is, this is great.
Thank you.
So, the next item on the agenda is a public hearing on school choice.
So, we were given a presentation on March 19th. So, Peter, would you, I don't think we need to redo the whole, the whole presentation, but maybe just summarize it. And then if there's any other new information you'd like to add.
Then after, after Peter speaks, then I'm going to have public comments.
Since this is just one topic and we do have an executive session tonight, I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep the time to those comments for one minute.
But we will, we will open up for public comments.
And then we will have the school committee discuss.
So, first I'm going to give it to Peter.
Take it away. So, I'll do just a quick summary that I want to address.
Jeremy had a couple of questions that I want to address.
And then we can open up the discussion.
So, as, as we reviewed previously, you know, school choice is a decision that each district makes each year.
If you choose to participate in school choice, you can decide, you know, what grade levels, what schools you are allowing admittance to. Then you have an application process.
If there are more applicants for a spot, then there is a blind lottery process in which kids are selected.
When you receive students, you get an allotment of $5,000 to the town per student.
You also get a reimbursement rate for students on special needs based upon their services.
So, in some of the questions that came out about other towns, it was noted in the last presentation that very, very few, our neighboring towns do not participate except for Mansfield.
But you did receive, there's, each year the state has a report of participating towns and you receive that in your packets.
It's also on the DESE website.
So, there's numerous towns. It's, you know, largely based upon either historical participation.
Holliston is one that I, you know, has historically participated in. And a lot of districts, again, that have needs for, they have, you know, needs for filling up some of their, filling in enrollments when they're having lower enrollment and are trying to maintain a certain size. With respect to looking at our enrollment over the next several years, there's not some obvious places where school choice would be something that we would, you know, definitely consider.
We look at our elementary.
We're looking to have approximately, after some of the cuts this year, the projections show the need for about, you know, 67 to 69 sections each year when, if we're trying to maintain a class size of approximately 2021 in there.
So, if we decided we wanted to have higher class sizes, absolutely.
If the enrollment projections, you know, two or three years down the lines are not perfect, then we see that there is a smaller incoming kindergarten and first grade group than we are expected based upon the census data and other information we had. That's something we could consider.
As far as the secondary level, you know, the middle school, we're already making some cuts at the middle school.
And the middle school after next year is expected to have some, well, including, you know, is expected to have some drops.
So, as we stated previously, like these next two years are not perfect for these cuts.
But after that, we're going to have a little bit of a decline. But I think the cuts that we're making, and especially if we have to consider, say, two additional cuts at the middle school next year, if the budget warrants that and if our numbers allow that, may not, you know, will not produce obvious places for, you know, school choices to kids to jump in. And when we get into larger numbers, you know, we could consider larger numbers and not making additional cuts.
But it does get more complex the more kids that you add at once. Again, I've always advocated for adding a small number if we were going to add and building up slowly.
And so that would not really solve the issue of, like, saving a couple of teachers, say, from the middle school in order to do so. The high school really is not looking for a significant decrease in enrollment until around the 29-30 school year when some of those middle school reductions kind of have strong impact on the high school.
So there's not obvious places at the high school. Certainly, year to year, you know, you can often, you know, because of the way that the high school schedule works, you could handle a handful of kids.
So that could be a consideration.
But they're not, again, obvious places where taking school choices would have, you know, make great sense.
The last thing, the question was around risk analysis.
And it's difficult.
You know, we get $5,000 per kid.
Some of that wouldn't necessarily go to the school system.
Usually about 80% would go if it's dealt with similarly to other funds.
It also, we need to promise from the, it would just go into revenue calculation.
So it would help. But you're not necessarily seeing that money as a separate entity. It goes into the larger pie of town revenues that end up resulting in our allocation.
As far as, you know, risk, you know, the, you know, the one place that is often of concern is around special education.
There is a reimbursement.
There is a reimbursement. So that's the benefit.
Reimbursement rates do not always cover the entire cost of the service that's provided.
But it's pretty close.
But it's not always the entire cost. And there are also times when there are additional services that might not be part of an IEP that are just necessary for a kid's well-being that might be needing to take on by the school choice district.
So those things can occur. At the same time, I'd say the great majority of kids who join through school choice, if there is a spot, they end up jumping into a spot.
You would have that teacher.
You'd have that classroom.
You'd have the base instructions and materials, you know, even if you didn't have that kid. So for most kids, you know, you get that benefit of the, you know, the portion of the $5,000 that occurs.
As far as the financial risk, that's a way of it's there's no real real way to it's really individual by kid as to what specific finances go above and beyond the, you know, $5,000 that the town receives.
And working in schools, you know, kids are all different.
So, you know, some of the kids are more complex and need additional resources.
And once they join us as a school choice student, they're a Sharon student for life. So they become like any other student.
That's really important if you're going to participate in school choice to have that culture.
You cannot have, oh, that kid from whatever town.
That does not serve that kid. It doesn't serve our system.
So you have to really buy in philosophically when you go about this.
That's great.
All right.
So, Jeremy, can I do the public hearing first?
Sure. Or is it really fast?
No.
It's.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Okay. Okay, great.
Okay.
So I would, I would like to invite anyone in the public to speak about school choice.
This is the time.
I did say one minute.
If you need, need more than a minute, that's fine. But I just ask that you'd be aware of the fact that we do have an executive session.
We have to come back and, and so forth. So I see Ms.
Crosby.
Oh, sorry.
There you go.
Thanks, Julie. And thank you for acknowledging that you can't actually limit public comment during a public hearing to one minute, just to be super clear for anyone watching.
That's like not a thing.
Um, so Dr.
Botello, um, I'm, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the NASDAQ data that was included in your budget book that went to FinCom.
It shows very clear declining student population by a pretty significant amount over the coming years.
And in fact, fiscal year 26 is student population is projected to be down quite a bit from fiscal year 25 and fiscal year 25 was down from fiscal year 24. Generally speaking, one thing you left out of your presentation is that one thing that pretty much all the districts that do opt into school choice have in common is, oh, wait for it, declining student population.
Because your state aid is also impacted by declining student population.
So all that magical state aid that you all kept insisting you were going to get for a fiscal year 25. And then you were shocked, did not show up.
And Avi tried to explain some of it and pointed out, well, you know, our student population went down and it went down in some specific categories as well.
You know, that can have a really outsized effect on the district.
And in addition to that, I'm willing to bet a meaningful amount of money that if you actually engaged in proactive conversations with the finance committee and didn't present slideshows that suggested they were condescending to you, you might be able to reach an agreement with them. That if you opt into school choice, you will get 100% of the subsidy.
And wouldn't that be nice as you're facing declining student population and cuts, which you don't want to make.
You didn't want to cut a whole middle school team this year. It's clear that four of you have middle schoolers who would have been impacted by that.
And all four of you were clear you didn't want to do it.
So you cut half a team.
Had you cut a whole team, your middle school average class size still would have been 22 or less.
You went with 20.
You have room to make additional cuts, but you don't want to right size. But you also don't want to opt into school choice and do the work that's necessary to stabilize our student population.
You want it every which way.
And you want all the money.
And you're not really showing any effort around tools that are available to you and honestly should have been part of your budget discussion.
Um, because you could have saved some teachers jobs if you had opted into school choice for next year.
Um, and it's become a pro forma thing.
You do it kind of jammed into a meeting not long before you have to take the vote.
You, you know, have a busy agenda.
You complain about having to get to executive session.
You do all the things you can do to distract and make it a pro forma thing.
And I think you're really doing a disservice to the community.
I would encourage you before you take this vote to have that conversation.
I suggested with FinCom.
They're meeting on April 28th. I bet they would love to figure out a way to hear from you and have a discussion about, hey, if we do opt into this program, can we agree that the full subsidy comes to the school and see how that goes before you take a vote?
That's my request.
Thanks.
Okay.
Uh, thank you, Judy. So what I heard is Judy is concerned about declining enrollment that, um, was presented in our packet and that Judy feels that the, um, the $5,000 could be negotiated.
So, uh, the last I heard is we would get 3,500, but assuming we had $5,000 per student that we managed to keep, I'm hearing that if we took more students than we would, uh, any, a certain number of students, I imagine we would be able to, um, keep the teacher.
So that's what, that's what I heard as a summary.
Um, Jeremy, did you want to start?
Yeah, I was hoping to have a more robust, um, discussion around this and a little more preparation for me, Dr. Botello. So looking at enrollment trends, I see an eighth grade, we have 257 kids projected, but in seventh grade, we have 291.
So, you know, that's a fairly sizable year to year Delta.
I mean, that's over 30 kids. So, you know, it could make sense to top up that class that's relatively small, knowing that there's going to be a large one.
As Judy pointed out, we are going to have relatively small classes in eighth grade this year. So I think there is an opportunity to bring in school choice kids specifically there where we could save teachers.
You know, we're not using any, you know, we don't need to build new classrooms.
We're working with declining numbers.
Um, you know, you know, we're not going to add an incremental fraction of a principal, for example, if we bring in 30 extra kids.
So to me, it seems like a smart way to smooth out some of these, the lumpiness in our different class sizes. And I do want to see an analysis of what that would look like.
Yeah. But I do have some slides that have the enrollment information that I was speaking to. If people would like to see that, I'd be happy to put them up.
Sure, put them up.
You want me to do that, Dr. Botello?
Yeah, that'd be great. Go to the enrollment portion.
Can you hold screen that, Gene?
Okay.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Okay. So this, first of all, starts off with just next year for elementary.
Um, and so those two yellow areas are the two places that currently, um, you know, have, have low enrollment.
So it's heights at grade one. Um, the problem with that is what I've discussed a bunch of times is the influx of kids between kindergarten and grade one that occurs during the summer is disproportionate to other grades.
So we often can have any place from 12 to 25 kids.
So, so that was, uh, we did do make that one cut in grade one at East, but we did not do that at heights to allow for, um, preparation for if that occurs.
Um, but that's a place that could be considered grade three at East, um, currently has, uh, a smaller number that we, we don't typically have a major influx into grade three.
Um, though, if we did have a handful of kids, uh, besides maybe one or two going to cottage, uh, they would go to East. So those are the two places at the elementary level this year, unless someone is seeing, um, another place that should be of consideration for, uh, this year in, at the elementary level.
Jeremy, do you see anything? Yeah.
Well, so I pointed out the middle school one, but I'm just doing one at a time.
Yeah. I think that, you know, we could discuss whether or not we wanted to open it at East, right? We have the building, we have the rooms, um, adding the kids would let us keep class sizes.
I mean, this is the type of analysis that I was hoping to see.
Like if we see, sir, if we see, let's say 10 or 16 kids join, that could save a teacher and you might actually end up with smaller class sizes, right? That that's the level of analysis I was expecting.
So I mean, I know the enrollment projections I'm asking for your opinion.
Yeah.
My opinion is again, I'm, I guess I'm asking for my opinion is that I don't see a place where we would want to safely, um, add kids at the elementary.
If, if the committee is seeing places that they think we should consider that, um, I'm certainly open for that discussion. I would not recommend adding 16 school choices at the elementary all in one year. I think the, the risk of, of adding that many kids, um, in tough budget years, as much as we have some financial benefit of the $5,000 is, is pretty significant because kids in school choice, again, great kids, but they're leaving their other districts for a region reason.
So there's a risk with every kid who comes and we want to make sure that we are prepared with the resources that we have to support all of them. So when we add four or five kids, you know, the risk factor is so much lower. If we grow slowly, if we add a large number of kids at once, then the risk obviously goes up. So my professional opinion, though, I really do, um, see the value of school choice.
I've participated in before is, um, adding a large number of kids at once, provides, presents, uh, a significant risk to the district.
Adam.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Adam.
Yeah. Thank you. I think Jeremy brought up a good point that I just want to clarify.
Do we, or don't we have space in East?
Cause I feel like East was, um, at one point kind of bursting when like post COVID, when we had to close the modulars and we were talking about potentially needing to, to expand or, um, do something else drastic, a drastic, excuse me. And then I think we were able to reconfigure.
So I just don't have a good sense.
You're talking about classroom space?
Yeah, kind of. Do we or don't we have kind of additional classroom space in East at this point?
Well, so theoretically, because we reduced one classroom in grade one, there's one classroom that would be available.
We do have currently we've always had some services, including PT and OT happening in the cafeteria area.
And so most likely some of those some of those services that are happening now that should really ideally be happening in the classroom would happen there. But we do have one space that we use for a classroom last year.
So, again, if the committee is entertaining, adding a whole classroom worth of kids, then that's something you could consider.
I wouldn't recommend it, but you'd certainly consider it.
Thank you.
Right.
Does anyone else have any questions on this topic?
All right.
So this is this is, you know, again, what we're looking like in the elementary over the next several years.
So certainly when we get to future years, if we're seeing that we have the possibility of, you know, we have a situation where in order to maintain this 67 sections that we have next year, that we would need to add some kids in order to make that feasible.
That's certainly something that could be considered. But I'm not seeing based upon our reduction to 67 sections next year, unless we want class size to go up considerably from that 21 ish number.
I'm not seeing projections that show openings in the elementary based upon the cuts we made this year. And then at the secondary level.
Yeah. So I think when we look to this year, we look at this year at the middle school.
My opinion is that the two reductions we made at the seventh and eighth grade.
I think that puts us around 20.
I don't think it's it's like 22 on average.
But then because of different classes, selections that kids have both, you know, different world languages that they might take French, Spanish or Chinese, as well as different levels of mathematics, that 22 can be a little lower for some kids and can be up higher.
So that that ends up being a range of any place from, you know, 19 to 26 kids.
And that's based on the class selection.
So, yeah, sure, we could add a couple of kids to grade eight.
But with the cuts that we've done, I would not recommend that.
Grade six is, you know, a little is a modest size.
But that next year will be part of that seventh and eighth grade group. Plus, again, we already talked about the possibility of having to do additional cuts in middle school in the FY 27 year.
Certainly, when we get to that point, we can make a determination as to whether or not it's the best way to to write size is to reduce a couple more sections in the next couple of years or to add school choice kids in order to supplement and keep keep additional staff. But I was, you know, when we made those cuts this year at the middle school, as I stated previously, I think this year and next year is kind of painful.
And after that, with, you know, the reductions that we're making at the middle school, our overall enrollment at the middle school will be able to sustain that for a number of years and have class sizes be at a more optimal level. I think a big discussion that we have to have at the table is what what are we looking for as far as class sizes at various grade levels?
I'm always shooting for, you know, 20 or ideally 20 or below at, you know, K12, you know, 22 to 24 maximum in three through five and still trying to maintain, you know, maximum class sizes at the middle school of like 26. And with, again, seventh and with seventh and eighth grade in different levels, you cannot spread kids completely evenly across classes because you have different choices in both world languages and in math levels, which causes you not to be able to take your number of kids and just divide it completely evenly. At the high school, again, we see kind of pretty flat for the, you know, after the next year, we're still at that 1146 where I wouldn't recommend any, any additional kids.
After that, there is a possibility in FY27 and 28 and 29 of considering additional kids as we look at the impacts of the cuts we've made at the high school thus far.
And so that will be something to consider. If nobody else wants to add something, I just, I guess my question is for a totally, I actually looked at enrollment projections that I could find for several other school districts, Acton, Boxborough, Whalen, Weston, and then a couple in the Hawk.
Whatever public information I could find.
And I found that in, well, it's five that I looked at. All of them are going to be down between like last year's numbers and like 29 to 30. They're all going to be down like at least 5%, if not more.
So I wonder what, how does that affect our decision?
Like if we know in five years, everybody's going to be down by like 5%. Does, does that make us more or less?
Like, is it, is it a good idea or not when everyone's going to be looking for supplementing and filling in on their classes?
I don't know. I'm just kind of asking.
Jeremy.
Yeah. Well, so we can specify which grade and how many kids.
Yes.
So, you know, if, if eighth grade is 257 and seventh grade is 291.
Let's say that we add 30 kids to eighth grade.
Like we don't go all the way up to 291.
You know, that, that would be 150 K to the budget.
Assuming we get 5,000.
Oh yeah.
So, I mean, we definitely get 5,000 per student and we'd get more. If, if, if they do need, require, if they have special needs, then there is a top up.
I don't understand much about that formula.
I was hoping to learn more.
I had a hard time finding it on the internet.
So it seems like, you know, we're going to have a much smaller than typical class next year. I'm sorry, two years from now in ninth grade.
And then we're going to have a much larger class following that.
So it seems like a way to, I don't want to be put in a situation where we're deciding between.
Do we have smaller than ideal class sizes?
Or do we cut a teacher?
And then rehire them when a larger class comes.
So that's why I think there's an opportunity in that cohort to bring in school choice kids.
Jeremy, can I, Avi, can you hold on? I just want to ask Jeremy.
So what, do you think that, I hear you're saying there's opportunities if we brought 30 kids into eighth grade.
I don't think it would be the full 150,000 because right now I think we'd be getting 3,500 per kid.
So it'd be considerably less.
But don't you think that there might be some. Like we can discuss this with FinCon because we would be bearing that full burden. If you're worried about 5,000 going to the town.
And then. Well, I mean, I'm happy to discuss.
I'm happy to discuss it offline.
But I don't believe that changing.
I don't believe that if we change that for this, it would overall benefit us because of the way the money gets split with the town. So I don't think that changing it here would be contained to just here.
I think it would end up being a bigger thing.
And it might ultimately disadvantage us. I'm aware.
I know them.
And I don't.
I don't think that that should.
I'm just saying I don't think we should have like dollar signs popping out of our eyes. Assuming that that's going to be. I think we need to assume for now and be conservative that it would still be the same split. I think that's a bad assumption.
Like we can do a contingent on whether or not FinCon agrees to that. Like we're talking over six figures here. I guess I want to just emphasize.
I hope that people are.
Again, I appreciated having school choice in Holliston.
I think it could be a great program.
Adding 30 eighth graders.
Yeah, that was my question.
Who are leaving their previous district.
And are coming in in eighth grade.
It does present significant risk.
Plus, I would want to give you again.
We did just cut two teachers in seventh grade.
And give you a breakdown of the range of class size that you would expect based upon that.
Right now, we're already expecting a range between like 19 and 26.
So you add 30 additional kids.
You know, that's going to impact that.
And it can't be broken down, you know, strictly by, you know, you have to take into account that kids have different selections, which can bump up some class. Right. I understand all that. I'm seeing a dip in one year that we're going to have to figure out how to accommodate.
And we did that this year by cutting teachers.
I'm saying that in the future, we may not need to do that.
Okay. But I didn't know. Jeremy, I'm getting to 30 this year. That's what I thought you were saying. No, no. Sorry. I was just about that's what I was trying to communicate is there are lots of opportunities.
And I don't think it's as big as you, but that's fine.
Let's stipulate we get 150,000.
I do think that there are also big challenges in allowing in having 30 new kids come into this class. And I would like to know, like, how can we respond to 30 new kids in a class that's, you know, about, that's a pretty big increase.
Avi. I just wanted to weigh in and say that, you know, for me, so when I joined the school committee four years ago and first began having to take this annual vote and understand school choice.
For me, philosophically, I'm not, I understand that Sharon has never in our history said yes to school choice, but I do see it as a benefit to the districts, if used properly, to level off certain uncontrollable things.
I do want to be clear, though, that we shouldn't ignore that those uncontrollable things are still uncontrollable.
And so we should also be looking at where in Sharon housing opportunities have been added, how those could affect incoming class sizes.
But the reality is, and I don't just mean incoming, I should be clear there, future class sizes, but also, you know, when a home is purchased in Sharon, it's possible that an eighth grader lives in that home.
But I do think that in limited numbers, in specific places, the ability to open up slots in very specific spaces does minimize risk.
And I do think that there's a value in specific cases where we look at certain, like if we're looking at an elementary school, for example, and when we were at numbers where we're right on the cusp of saying if there were four more kids, it would make sense to keep another class versus cutting a class and then increasing class sizes.
I would see a value in school choice.
I don't think, based on all the math I've tried to do and look at it, that the risk of the number of kids it would take for it to be a real financial gain is worth it.
So I guess I want to be clear that in small numbers, I do support school choice. I think it could be a creative way to solve individual logistical issues.
And it does bring funding in.
Our per pupil spend is a lot, largely fixed costs.
And so, or I shouldn't say fixed costs, but not directly tied to each student costs. So there is sometimes the narrative that Sharon spends 20K per student.
If you're only getting five back, you're losing 15. That's obviously not true. There is a benefit.
But I also do understand in times because I've asked Dr. Botello for an explanation, in times because I've sought answers from educators, administrators, school finance people outside of this district as well, is that there are expenses related to school choice students that are covered by their home district.
There are also expenses that you do then incur in certain situations in district.
And the larger the pool that you accept in one year, the larger the chance that you may incur some of those expenses.
And again, to be clear, some of these expenses can be very high. And so I do think we should be clear that if we were to take in $150,000, for example, as we're talking about now, in revenue through 30 kids, there presents the chance that we'll end up with more than $150,000 in expenses.
And then we'd be sitting here in a very different spot.
I also want to point out, so again, to be clear, that does not mean I'm against using school choice in specific situations.
And it doesn't mean I'm philosophically against school choice.
I also wanted to be clear that this is another case similar to the capital outlay for math curriculum, Adam, where I would encourage us to go and have a conversation with finance committee as part of these discussions.
I think there's nothing wrong.
Look, nobody likes the sport of combating our finance committee more than I do. But I think that they've proven time and time again that they're always happy to have the conversation.
I think they've made it clear they would like more conversation.
And so if we wanted to have a conversation with them about whether or not us engaging in school choice, whether it be now or sometime in the future, would mean that we could have the full dollar value, we wouldn't have to speculate here.
I think we could have that conversation.
And at the end of the day, if they're not open to it, we would walk away understanding that. If they were open to it, we would also walk away understanding that. And then when we had these conversations, when someone's talking about 30 students, we would be talking about 150,000 or we would be talking about 120,000.
And we would know that. Right. And so I do think that those are the important conversations to be having as we're trying to plan these things, because, you know, those would be different.
Also, Dr. Mattel, I think, and I know these are hard conversations to be had. We don't want in any way to make students feel like they would be a burden to us or in any way diminish the value of students that are in our district or would be coming into our district.
But the more we could understand what kinds of costs we might possibly incur, I think the better, the more robust and honest these conversations could be had. Because for me, I have some sense, but I don't know exactly what costs would be covered by a home district versus what costs would be covered by our district and what those risks are. And, you know, again, if we're doing the business of running the school committee, I think even having conversations at this table about what kinds of, you know, if they're coming from a district where they're behind us in, you know, in certain.
So, for example, I talked to a parent today who moved and said that their child was saying, like, their child is in eighth grade. And they were saying, like, the new district that they've moved to, their kid was, like, saying, wow, I'm so ahead because Sharon was so ahead. So I can understand that maybe perhaps one potential issue is there would be a gap between some students where they're coming in at and where we're at.
And obviously, if that's one, two, three students, it takes a certain amount of resources and time.
If it's 30 students by chance, I imagine that's a different issue.
Those are the things I think we could be talking about really clearly so we could understand what the benefits and the risks are.
I guess I want to just keep on emphasizing it's very individualized.
And I also want to emphasize the great majority, even the kids who struggle, again, deserve our, you know, us value them equal with any kid.
And the great majority of kids will come in and will do well and will support them, you know, in reasonable ways that don't have great costs. But just one example, you can have one student who is struggling, you know, mightily, social, emotionally, who can end up, you know, taking up a great deal of our social, emotional resources, whether adjustment counselors or school psychologists.
That can happen with a Sharon kid as well. So it's not just where they live.
But that does occur.
You have kids, you know, who, you know, are escaping difficult circumstances and can have a cost that's really hard to quantify.
Those things happen.
Again, those can happen with a kid who lives in Sharon, moves in Sharon.
We still value them.
We still want to support them. But those types of things occur. And the more kids, I agree with you, absolutely.
The more kids you add at once, the greater the risk of those.
I think it's largely those intangible costs, as well as, again, some of the special education costs where the reimbursement is not sufficient to what you actually need to do to support that kid pose risks as well.
But it's very individualized.
And, again, my concern, I've always been in support of adding small numbers of kids in order to get things going.
But adding large number of kids at once is, again, I think as much as I love the program would pose a risk, I think would not be, you know, not be wise at this point.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Dan.
Yeah, thanks.
I just wanted to say that I think the quality of this discussion has been high.
I think we're talking about this in the right terms.
You know, we've been talking about economic concepts, quantitative concepts like fixed costs versus marginal costs.
And I think that's the right space to talk about something like school choice.
So I appreciate all that. I hope to just round out that discussion and add to it a little more from my perspective.
So I've noticed that with school choice, there is often a focus on how the fixed costs of our schools, heating and building space and things are really high and they're there and we have to pay them anyway.
And then there is also a focus on what you might call the marginal revenue that you get. So you get this money when a student comes in. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there that not all costs are fixed and there are also marginal costs associated with additional students.
Those are nonetheless real.
So just for example, we buy students things like laptops.
There are also costs in terms of staff time, which you might say time is money.
So if we add kids to classes, that is time going to a student where they cause, but that is not being not available to go to the other students.
And that's one of the big challenges, of course, with higher class sizes. Class sizes also, when they go up, have severe costs associated with them.
Every parent knows that, of course, in terms of their child's individualized attention.
It also affects things like school rankings.
It actually affects it in two of the metrics they use. So when you have higher class sizes, it can affect your ranking negatively.
And when you have a worse teacher to student ratio, that's another factor that goes into ranking.
So I just wanted to add that there are real deleterious effects of a declining population.
Class sizes going down. It can affect state aid. But there's also major advantages of it. I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. If some years our population goes down a little bit, it could be seen as a correction of the trend of increasing class sizes that we've seen for many years. And there are positive effects of that as well, which we could even place the dollar value on if we wanted to. So I appreciate the conversation.
I just wanted to add some of those thoughts.
Thank you, Dan.
Adam?
Thank you. And I agree with Dan.
I think it's been a really, really nice conversation.
I'll note, and I would agree wholeheartedly that we should talk to folks on the Finance Committee.
I'd also not want to leave out the Select Board because oftentimes the allocation is determined at Priorities Committee, which is comprised of both the FinCom and Select Board.
So really, we should make sure to include all of our stakeholders in those conversations.
Dr. Patel, I have a question.
I am concerned about if we have a large number of students that we're using kind of in a particular grade.
Like, let's say we have a bubble, so to speak.
And then as that cohort ages out, we're replacing them with higher enrollment within Sharon.
So kind of we don't maintain the same level of school choice.
Then we would see actually a large decrease in our operating budget because we wouldn't be getting necessarily those funds from school choice because we'd have the Sharon students support it. And I'm curious, in your experience with school choice, kind of how do you kind of balance those funding issues of not becoming overly reliant on school choice dollars that then might not be present in a given year?
I think in general, you're looking to, well, any kids are leaving the district, say they're graduating in grade 12. If you have, you know, 20 kids across, then you'd be looking to try to add, you know, 20 kids throughout the system and kind of so maintain that level or prepare for, you know, if again, if you're finding that your overall numbers are not something that you want to sustain for various reasons, then preparing for that. But generally, you know, districts will, you know, will backfill with that number or, again, know that they're having increases in funding through, you know, they'll get a certain increase in funding if they're just having their own resident kids who are increasing, say, in kindergarten and those grades as well. But you have to count for it.
Okay, thank you. Yeah, so I guess that reaffirms, I guess, my concern if we added a large number of students in one year and not in others, because then we'd kind of be forced to add a large number kind of as those kids kind of graduate and age out. And I don't know if our enrollment necessarily kind of merits that, or at least I would be nervous.
I don't know if we have enrollment estimates that far out, but I would be very, that would make me more comfortable, I guess, if we had those enrollment estimates that kind of pushed farther out. And we said, yeah, you know, if we brought in a large number of students to a particular grade, we actually think we can kind of replace them throughout the district, so to speak, like that we will have other enrollment openings.
So that would make me more comfortable if you have that information.
Thank you. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Thank you. Thank you, Alan.
And by the way, Alan and Jeremy, can we wrap this?
Yes.
I actually would love to start with a question to you. And that is, I'd like to make a motion, but I'd also like to have a comment. So would you prefer that I make the comment and hold the motion or make the motion and then comment before we vote? Why don't you just state what your motion would be if you were to make it? I would, I would move that we decide that we will not pursue school choice for the 2025-2026 academic year.
Okay.
And then what was your comment?
The reason I don't think we should pursue it, a couple of things. First of all, I don't think we're talking about at the table about just, just how serious the budget is. Systemic budget issues are in the Commonwealth when it comes to funding school budgets across Eastern Massachusetts in particular.
We've had two years of very tough budgets here, but there have been really tough budgets in almost all of the towns around us. And there's no reason to believe that this coming year and the year after are going to be any better.
And certainly as we look at potentially more federal funding being cut, grants being cut. I just think the budget situation that we could find ourselves in is extraordinarily perilous.
I think school choice is a wonderful idea, as others have said, when it allows us to sort of top things off and get money that we can then apply to other areas where we really have deficits.
But, you know, I just think about all the parents that we've heard from and spoken to who really feel that we failed them when it comes to things like special education.
And to think that we could take on additional students from out of district because again, Sharon is one of the, I think would be one of the higher performing districts if we were to opt in. That would be participating in school choice.
I think we'd be a very attractive option for a lot of families that would be interested in school choice. And I just can't imagine taking in students who would be our students absolutely from other towns who may end up having significant educational needs and knowing that we're already not meeting the educational needs of all of our students that are here. And so the money that we'd be bringing in and a larger influx of students wouldn't allow us to better serve the students that are here. It might allow us to make sure we can serve the 30 students or some number that we're bringing in. But I just think there's way too much uncertainty and way too much that we're not doing right now to start taking on students from other towns. That's my opinion.
Thanks. Thanks, Alan. And Jeremy, I'm going to give you the last word. Sure. I think it's comical that you're spending budget issues elsewhere when not seriously assessing this 100K or so opportunity with that gap in the grade.
Like, I mean, I can go ad nauseum, but we're talking about a large drop in one class followed by a larger class, right?
It's going to be like over 30 kids.
So we've seen the impact of that on middle school where we discussed cutting staff and we're ending up with class sizes below optimal.
Next year, we're going to see that in high school.
So are we going to cut teachers or are we going to have to cut elsewhere to support smaller than optimal classes?
What we're talking about here is smoothing our capacity and teachers fall in the category of, yes, there is a marginal cost to them, but there's also a cost in like cutting and rehiring them. So I think that we need a robust discussion around risks. I haven't seen anything around.
If there is a high special needs kid, how much is covered by the state or how much is covered by the sending district?
That's what I had asked for last meeting. We're missing the risk component. We talk about it in a complete vacuum. There's a bullet that says a lot of that cost is covered by the sending district, but we don't know what a lot is. We don't know what the sum is. So that risk that we're worried about, we have no idea what it is and how much we're insured against by the policy.
So, sure, yes. I mean, if you want to move, if you want to vote, no, fine, but we haven't had a proper discussion or analysis.
All right, Adam, I was going to give Jeremy the last word, but then you got your hand up. So.
Yeah, so I, I, I'm curious, I want to get Jeremy's opinion to me, like I still have this concern, just in terms of the bubble.
It feels like we're kicking the can down the road. And even if we smooth here for this particular class, then our operating budget is, let's say, kind of increased by $150,000.
That four years from now, when that class graduates, we now have $150,000 deficit to our operating budget in addition to other costs.
So I don't, I, I mean, that's really not something that's, I want to, I want to understand your perspective.
Right, like in this system, in any system, right, you want to keep, you want to remove variance.
You want to keep it relatively level.
We have more kids coming in the other grades.
We have one year. So the question is, are we going to get rid of a lot of teachers for four years through high school and plan around that and then bring them back as the high school class increases?
Or can we bring in some kids to keep the high school size stable?
Right, I guess my question is, four years from now, when we have $150,000 deficit in our operating budget, what do we do? Right, how do we make up for that deficit?
Because that's, if we had kind of a, kind of more.
I think that's a strange way to look at it. It's, what is our per people spending like?
Okay, how about this?
Is, do we have to vote on this tonight, Jane? Is it due tonight?
Or can we have, can we make time at the next meeting to? You don't have to vote tonight, but you have a motion on the floor. So you don't.
No, we don't, because it was just what. I thought Alan made the motion.
No, I asked him what his motion would be if he were to make one. Oh, okay.
Ha ha.
Okay, so let's. Can I, sorry, can I interrupt? Yes.
Okay, this is Avi overstepping.
This is the Avi that was chair for two and a half years overstepping. And I want to be clear.
I'm good.
I would be a no on deciding this tonight. So I would not vote.
I would vote against Alan's vote. I want to be clear. But a member of our committee said they want to make a motion.
I, my reason for not going with his motion will be that I'm not ready to vote. And I, and I, I side with Jeremy and wanting to see some information.
I feel like we don't have to make a decision at this moment. And I think that this is. Look for four years. I've wondered like.
About a lot of the things we're talking about tonight. I've explored some of it. I think this is the by far the most robust conversation, but we do have a member of our committee that wanted to make a motion. I, I believe that rather than have like a conversation from chair about whether or not we should make the motion.
See if he can get a second. And if he can, let's vote it. Okay.
Cause I was going to suggest that we complete this conversation and in the middle.
Time we could have some more analysis of different scenarios with like figures or estimates of something like that.
And that's what I was going to suggest, but you are correct.
Alan did want to make the motion. So Alan, would you still like to make your motion? Yeah, because for me personally, although I think the data would be helpful, I don't foresee it changing how I'm going to feel about it for this year. So I will make the motion. Let's let's see where people feel about it. I will move that we do not.
Support or do not choose to enroll in school choice for the 2526 academic year. Second.
Okay.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Dan. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Yes. Okay.
So that, so yes to this, if this motion passes, it means we're not going to discuss it at the next.
This is, this is it right. Alan, is that what you're saying? This would be a vote to make a decision tonight to not, a yes vote would be to make a decision tonight to not enroll in school choice with the upcoming academic year. Okay.
And a no vote might mean that you do want to participate in school choice, or you would like to wait for next week. Is that.
Yeah.
Everybody, everybody gets that. Okay.
So yes, Avi. It's important to note, just because what you just said was that would mean we wouldn't discuss it, that actually it's rescindable both ways. It's rescindable if we, if, if for some reason this passes, we can still absolutely agenda this longer conversation.
And I would ask that whether or not this passes right now, that we agenda a more in depth conversation about the things that we all said tonight, we'd like to see. The conversation does not have to stop here based on how this vote goes. Okay.
Okay.
So I, we are now in the middle of the vote and I've asked Dan, so I will now ask Jeremy.
No.
Avi.
No.
Adam.
Yes.
Shauna.
No.
No, wait.
Yeah.
Yes.
To no.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So.
Final answer.
Yes.
Okay.
So it's, there were, oh, and Alan. Let me, yes. So yes, yes, yes.
No, no, no. I guess I'm in the middle.
I'm going to say no, because I would like to continue this conversation next week or next meeting. So, so my vote is no.
So the motion fails. Thank you, Alan. And I'd like to agenda a more.
Hold on. Another.
I think.
Hold on. Hold on. I think the motion passed. Yeah.
It carried four, three. SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: Four, three. I said no. Yes.
Oh, okay.
Dan said yes. Adam said yes.
Shauna said yes.
Alan said yes. That's four. Oh, sorry.
Okay.
Um, then I, uh, stand corrected.
Um, all right. Um, all right. So we will not have school choice this year, but we can still request that there be a discussion about some of these scenarios at the next meeting.
Correct?
Avi.
I just, again, want to clarify as of right now, we will not have school choice next year, but it is the administration was kind enough to in our packet include some frequently asked questions that made it actually very clear that if at the next meeting or anytime.
In the, in the near future before a couple important deadlines, we were to, we were to make a motion to approve school choice for next year, we still could. So I do want to be clear that we did with there is still the that conversation can still be had in a robust fashion and be and be the outcome could be different.
We can change our minds. Okay.
Okay.
Uh, uh, Dan, very square quick.
I just want to make sure we're satisfying our legal requirement to have a vote on whether to participate in school choice or not. I thought the motion was whether we would take a vote tonight.
Is that not correct? No, we were voting on whether we would participate in school choice.
And cause Alan said that. Alan is in that.
My intention was to, was to essentially call the issue tonight and decide that we were not. My position was that we would not pursue, would not enroll, would not choose to be a district that participated in school choice.
That was what I thought we were voting on. That's not what I heard, but. That's how I recorded it in my notes. Just so. Okay.
If that's how it's recorded. Everyone understands it. I'm good.
Does that change your vote Dan? No, it doesn't.
Okay.
Okay.
There we go. Okay.
So we'll just leave it there and we will move on. Kristen has been waiting incredibly patiently to do her presentation on Sharon High School course selection and scheduling and the section development process.
This is something that we are, I think we're all looking forward to. So if Kristen is here, you can take it away.
I am here.
Hello.
Good evening, everybody. I'm just trying to share my screen.
So let me know if you're able to see, are you able to see that?
No, not yet.
Okay.
All right.
Um, SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: I'm on, I'm on, I'm on my share button, but it's somewhere.
SPEAKER_UNKNOWN: And then usually it opens up some other. It is, but it's for some reason it's like, you want me to share?
Um, yeah, I guess. I guess.
Yeah, I guess. That's a bummer. Cause I had, um, hold on one set. Let me just try one more time. My apologies.
I know everyone's tired. It is, but it's for some reason it's like, you want me to share?
Yeah, I get, that's a bummer.
Cause I had, um, hold on one set. Let me just try one more time. My apologies.
I know everyone's tired.
Um, yeah, it's, it's just not working Jane.
So my apologies.
Okay.
Um, I am going to just move all of you for a second.
So good evening.
I know you've been here for a while, so I will try to move through this, but essentially, uh, I was asked by members of school committee and central office to do an overview for school committee and the community in terms of how we schedule at the high school, as it is a pretty large, uh, process.
So essentially we start off every year, kind of looking at this goal we have for scheduling, which is to provide students, obviously with a wide range of engaging and challenging courses that will prepare them for their post-secondary pursuits and their goals beyond Sharon high school.
So we endeavor to meet the needs and the preferences of our students through very individualized and nuanced course selection processes that align with our goals and our values, um, within the logistical and contractual limits of the master schedule.
So that being said, um, building a master schedule at the high school level is like doing a, you know, 25,000 piece puzzle sometimes.
And there's a lot of parts to it that I think are interesting to learn about. If you're someone who loves puzzles, I think you would be fascinated by it. So we use in Sharon, uh, an information system that allows us to schedule our building, but it also you, we use it for a variety of other measures, such as our attendance and, um, all kinds of metrics, right?
So we use power school and that is our grade book, et cetera, et cetera.
And within power school is a scheduling component, uh, of which we use Jane, you can, can, uh, move on there.
Thank you.
So one of the things I want to mention is that I think a lot of times people think of scheduling, um, only as the months in which we reach out to families, um, February and March and say, Hey, it's time to schedule.
Counselors are going to be meeting with your children and we're going to be sending information home and we will, um, complete that process sometime in March. But in actuality, um, the scheduling process at the high school is really a full year.
It really starts, um, really in August, early September, and it goes until the following August.
So I wanted to just break this down for you a little bit, essentially, if you can go back one, Jane, thank you. Um, essentially preparing to build the schedule and working on the program of studies, they kind of happen, um, at the same time from September through February.
And then we actually do the scheduling of students, which is actually a very small portion of building the schedule.
And then we spend March really through August building the master schedule.
So I wanted to kind of give you a timeline of that. Um, and so I'm going to first start talking about this blue portion, the preparing to build, because it is much bigger.
Um, and you can move on, Jane, thank you.
Um, then people think it actually starts with school committee.
And when you determine the school calendar for the following year, because all of that sort of information needs to go into our scheduler, you cannot start to build a schedule unless you're putting in all kinds of parameters, such as years and terms, also promoting students, also putting in grading periods.
So at the, this is a, this is a process that we start in August and September, where we put all of our marking periods down. We have to put them into power school.
And in addition to that, on this particular slide, you see, we have to build out the schedule.
This year was a little interesting because we had a new bell schedule this year, right? We added a block onto our day. So all of our classes did get shortened by a degree.
And so our flow, our waterfall flow of a schedule kind of changed a little bit as did our lunchtime.
So all of that has to get programmed in the system.
So then we spend at the same time, we're working, you know, with curriculum coordinators, teachers, um, union members, central office, and we're, uh, members of the school committee.
And we're really looking at, um, the program of studies from the previous year. You can go forward, Jane. Thank you.
So the program of studies, we start to examine it in the summer and we start to have conversations with our coordinators and to say, Hey, what sort of courses do we want to continue with? Are there courses that are not going to run next year for a variety of reasons?
It might be that, um, enrollment has been low over a number of years on a particular course.
It could be because there's a curriculum revision and therefore some courses have, have, have gone. It could be that a teacher retired.
And so an elective that historically had been their course that they had created no longer is relative relevant for the department.
So there's a variety of reasons why we would look at the program of studies.
So again, um, the leadership team starts to review it in September when we, when we first start to have our, um, you know, instructional leadership team meetings and then the coordinators, they meet with their departments and they review every course listing in their department and they make recommendations for changes. Some teachers might say, Hey, you know, we, we don't have this AP course right now. I'd like to, you know, um, I'd like to teach it, you know, can I, can I go to a training on that? Uh, is there an appetite for this particular course? Some teachers might say, Hey, I really want to teach an elective, um, about foreign policy, which is one of the, uh, new courses that we have this year. Then the leadership team meets again to review all the recommendations and we develop a draft of the program of studies. And we share that with the superintendent, the assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction.
And then we share an updated draft with you, the school committee.
So you give some suggestions, you have questions, we look at it again, and we make any changes or edits that's appropriate.
And we incorporate it into the program of studies and we share it out with the community.
Right?
So that is happening simultaneously with the prepare to build.
So you can see on this continuum, I've kind of gone back to the prepare to build. So there's a prepared to build time period in the fall that happens up until about February.
Then we kind of do a review of the program of study simultaneously.
And then we kind of go back to prepare to build a little bit. So if you could go to the next slide.
So then what we have to do is we have to look at every course that exists in power school.
And so, you know, there's a historical list of courses.
So courses never leave the information system.
They just become unschedulable or schedulable.
And that is because, um, students that, um, have graduated years before where their transcripts are connected to a particular course, we don't want to get rid of that. So it's really important that we have a historical document of all courses that we offer.
And so we spend quite a bit of time going through all of these courses and it does take time, particularly if you're, um, making courses unschedulable or if you're creating brand new courses.
So for example, on the next slide, Jane, you'll see that this is the honors us foreign policy course. That's going to be new this year. And if you can see under the title of that course, there's a variety of tabs underneath.
So it's not just like building out this course.
And obviously on the program of study side, there is a description and that teacher's building out the syllabus and they're having discussions with, um, colleagues, but on our side, um, the, the schedule builder side, we have to make sure that we get everything right on this master build, which includes, you know, every check off and check on and making sure we were putting in how many credits this is worth. Is it a semester course, a full year course? What is the title of it?
The state, you have to assign state codes to it. So you have to look up state codes for what the course might be. Is it part of our GPA? Is it not part of our GPA? So there's a lot of involvement.
So if you're in a given year where you're adding a lot of classes, it can be time consuming.
From there, um, we actually move on to the scheduling of students.
And, you know, I say that like this happens very quickly, but all of this is happening over series of months and months and months.
We are checking and rechecking and rechecking.
So February, March is really the part that families know about and students know about everything else is more behind the scenes.
And that is when we start having meetings with students and you can move on, Jane. Thank you.
So the first thing that happens is we have, um, our counselors having full class meetings with students by grade.
Right.
And we are talking to them about what is the timeline for scheduling?
How do you schedule, you know, what are overrides, what are AP courses, what are the different levels in the school?
And those are important overarching meetings.
Uh, but then the counselors meet with their students by grade, by their caseload.
And they talk to them more specifically, can answer more specific questions for kids while they're looking at the potential courses that are available to them. And then what ends up happening is students, um, get recommendations from teachers.
And as you know, when you voted on the program of studies this past year, we made some changes where we added qualifications and recommendations.
So for certain courses, you need to meet a certain qualification and then a teacher recommendation.
And so what ends up happening is counselors start to look at those recommendations and we start to compare them to those qualifications and we start to see what courses they should be in. And they meet with the students and those, those kids start to select their courses.
And what happens is a student may say, you know, this is what was recommended, but I really want to try this honors course, or I would really like to try, try this AP course. And that's where the discussion of potential overrides come in. And, um, we go over all of that with students and also their families.
And we talk about the review progress toward graduation is what you're choosing, getting you to where you need to go by the end of your 12th grade year in order to graduate, uh, with your peers. So to talk a little more specifically about the override process, this is the document that we use at Sharon high school.
And so if a student says that they are interested in, in doing an override for a particular class, we make sure that these are discussions that counselors have with students, that students have to reach out to their teachers and have a discussion about why the recommendation was the way it was. Uh, we try to have conversations with parents as well. And that if families with their children decide that they still want to override a particular recommendation, this is the form of directions that they would use to do that.
And we do have a strict deadline on that.
And I think that that gets confusing for some people because they think, well, you, you know, you have months, you know, the next school year doesn't start until September.
Why is there a deadline of March? And that's because the last part of this building of the schedule, um, is very, very time consuming this year alone.
We had 411 override requests for courses.
So you can imagine we had the original requests, then those override requests.
And once we got all of those completed, um, um, there are logistical concerns for us about whether or not, um, we're able to help you if for some reason you want to get out of the class that you overrode to get into, which happens sometimes, right? Students say, you know, they want to challenge themselves and they get into a class and they say, you know what, I, this is, I bit off more than I could chew. Or, you know, conversely, they say, I'm in a class right now that, um, I really think I can challenge myself further.
So we try to be very particular about that deadline because it really helps us in building out the schedule with fidelity.
So now we're at the, the part that, that really runs from March through August.
And again, this is a behind the scenes part of building the schedule and is it's, it is incredibly time consuming, which is okay because we want to get it right. The, the, what we want to do as best we can is give students the schedule they want. And so that just takes a, you know, a lot of time to run it. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit, how that happens.
So once students sign up for those classes and the overrides are all completed, what we end up getting is an amount of students that sign up for classes.
So this is just a screenshot from a number of years ago. So please don't look at this closely as if this is one that, that, you know, um, is from this year. It's not. So I, I purposefully took it from a while ago and you will see that, um, there is a column of primary requests next to particular courses.
I use the math department as an example in this, and then you can see alternate requests for that particular course. And then what happens is that coordinator tries to determine proposed sections for that course.
And what that would mean in terms of class sizes. And what ends up happening is we end up having a lot of meetings back and forth with coordinators.
Remember coordinators also contractually have to meet with teachers and they have to find out what their preferences are in terms of courses to be taught. So there's some, you know, that is one of the, the pieces of that. And then it's like building a puzzle.
How many full-time teachers do I have? So how many sections, full-year sections do I have? In this case, you can see, uh, it is 60. And so you kind of work from there to make that all fit. You can move on to the next slide, Jane. And so then what starts to happen is we look at these sections and we go, okay, we think we have the sections right for the amount of staff that we have and for the selections that students really wanted.
And then you start to build the schedule.
And what happens is, um, in a computer system that, you know, creates an algorithm to, um, design the best schedule for you, there is a lot of constraints.
And every time you put a constraint into the building of the schedule, it just makes it more difficult to run at the highest percentage it can run. So for example, um, you might have to lock and block a particular teacher at a particular time. So for example, at the high school and the middle school, our orchestra teacher, um, she goes between both schools.
So we had to, you know, Kevin and I had to speak in terms of what periods that, um, Ms. Ethier would teach at the middle school and what period she would teach at the high school to make sure, because we both have the schedules the way we do, um, that it would work. And so you kind of have to lock and block her into a particular period, right?
That becomes a constraint.
Um, our whole special ed department, we have particular programs that run that we have to lock and block. And also if you have students within the special education department that are in, um, classes, um, that are more, um, contained, then those have to be locked in blocks.
So if you are in, um, whether you're in an inclusion or sub separate, um, you have to make sure that if you're in grade nine math, that it's not running the same time as grade nine English for that.
If what is called for on their grid is a sub separate course, right?
Um, you also have to schedule ACLAB. So at Sharon high school, we have ACLAB majors and ACLAB minors, and we have to embed that. So all of those things kind of have to be locked and blocked.
The same goes for our ELL population as, as well. And then you have what's called singletons.
And these are the courses that can put a lot of constraint on building the master schedule.
For example, if only 20 students sign up for AP chemistry, that becomes a singleton.
It's one section.
And if you are trying to run Latin, you know, three, for example, um, and there's only one section of that. And when, when power school runs it, when we hit the button and they're running at the same period, what you're going to see is there's a lot of errors because students either didn't get the AP chem or they didn't get the Latin three. And that becomes a problem. And it just becomes a lot of solving those issues and making movements and running the schedule.
Again, you have to make sure you are blocking co-teachers together so that, um, if we assign them in an ELA class in a particular period, they're going to be together.
And you also want to assign common planning time for them so that they can work together in planning out the schedule.
You have linked courses that you have to lock and block. An example would be our humanities course, which is both ELA and social studies.
So we do those.
Then you start looking at room and space constraints.
And if these classes are running at this time, will they all fit in this part of the building and all of our science labs, et cetera.
You have to look at max numbers.
So the science department has max numbers because they are a lab labs. And so they are maxed out at 24.
Also, you know, you have other courses that are maxed out lower just for space issues and some that are higher.
Um, you want to pay attention to common planning times, particularly, uh, departmentally, the departments, every cycle they meet for a department meeting.
And so we space those out and make sure that they happen different periods in the flow of the schedule.
We got to look at teacher certifications.
And so when a particular class is running at a certain time, do we have a teacher, particularly in science, because they have very specific certifications, have the right certifications to teach that class? Do we have to move the schedule around and assign a different teacher?
You have to look at the teacher contract.
I mean, this is a big thing, right? So we're building a schedule and we have to adhere to the contract that has been signed.
So for example, in the current contract, there is a max limit for teachers for a hundred total students.
And so if it goes over that, that becomes something that is grievable.
And so you're constantly looking at numbers. Can I move students into this class or this class? I want to mention in this, in this particular moment about that, a lot of times, uh, we'll get phone calls or emails that say something to the effect of, um, when the schedule runs, um, you know, I've talked to my child's friends and there's room in their class. So can you just put that, my child in that class? And there's so many other caveats to that. One of them might be the fact that that teacher in that class that does have a few seats available in their other classes, it might equal out to having a hundred total students.
So, so we can't just put another student in there contractually.
So those are things to think about. There are safety plans to consider.
Um, we have students that can't be in classes together.
So we look at those as well. Curriculum revisions happen.
Um, we listened today about math and earlier this year about ELA. And when those things happen, courses change and that puts some constraints on the schedule and we have a brand new schedule this year. So that was certainly, uh, uh, at least a learning curve, right?
Where it's taking more time to build out. So those things take a long time. Wanted just to give you an example of this. This is actually from my prior experience building out the master schedule.
So these courses aren't courses from Sharon high school, but what you can see in that middle column is all of the constraints I had to put for all of those courses, when they can run, when they cannot run and why. And the more constraints you can see that you put into a schedule, whether it's a, by a course, by a teacher or by your student, um, it doesn't run perfectly the first time you can move forward. Thank you. So this is what we're doing simultaneously as we're running the schedule.
So what we do is once we have everything in place that I've talked about, we hit the button and generally speaking, it will start to come back at around 50%, right?
Complete where students got the courses that they signed up for. And then we look for particular issues, which I'll show you on the next slide.
And we start to look for rooms simultaneously.
So we're kind of doing, we're multitasking at this time.
You can go on to the next slide.
And ultimately this is what we want in the end, right?
Which is a student schedule that is complete, that is no holes in it, but this is not what it looks like in the beginning.
In the beginning, it looks like there's going to be holes because this particular student, when AP, you know, statistics run, ran, it's the same time as AP European history.
And so we have to make some moves internally to make the schedule work for this particular student.
And what you can see here are reports that we run. So for example, this is in my, my past life too. I highlighted in yellow there, the sections not met. So what you do is you hit that button and the schedule falls.
And like I said, it usually comes back at 50%, but you want it really 80 to 90%. So you have to look at where the errors are. And you can see here in that column, that yellow column, there were 84 selections not met in that CTE exploratory nine course.
And so I had to figure out why, what happened that 84 kids did not get that course.
And I have to make corrections within the system to make it work better, whether it is assigning that a different period or block, et cetera.
And then you run it again. And then you continue to work down that list of selections, not met to get it to a point where you feel like it's 80 to 90% and you can send it off to counselors.
You can move that next slide.
So that you can send it off to counselors to hand schedule the rest of the schedule.
And this happens every year, almost in every high school that you can think of. So you get it to a certain percentage complete.
And then counselors over the summer and the end of June and over the summer will come in and they will make hand changes to individual student schedules.
We'll look for flaws.
We'll, you know, we will combine courses that fell, that were low so that we can open up another course somewhere else.
And we make all those final fine tuned changes.
And then hopefully, you know, by the end of July, beginning of August, we feel like we're in pretty good shape. And then we push it out, what we call into the real world, which is into the world that both teachers and students can see. And usually that happens at the end of August. And that is when students and families can see a child's full schedule, including their teachers and the periods in which they're taking their classes.
And then you commit it. And then obviously you can move forward from here, Jane.
There's still some things to do over the summer. You have lots of new students that come into the district.
You have students that leave. You have students that go to vocational schools, for example.
You fix the holes, like I just mentioned.
You have new staff that comes in and staff that leaves. And does that make some significant changes for the courses that you can offer?
And then we have at the beginning of the new school year, an add-drop period. And that is when we make final changes and students have the ability and capacity to make some changes when they look at their full schedule and see if something's not really right for them. And that's really, in a pretty small nutshell, of how we build out the schedule.
I mean, we could talk forever.
The book to schedule in PowerSchool is 212 pages.
So it's very technical.
But I hope you got a good perspective.
And I'd like to leave with this goal that we have in terms of wanting to give kids the best opportunity and access to the best schedule.
So thank you. Thank you. That is so great.
And I think it looks like while other people are collecting their thoughts, I did have a question.
I was wondering if you could talk.
So you said the round 50% of the, you know, 50% of the schedule was made. So can you discuss the software that we use compared to other softwares on the market?
Like, is that like the best that we get? Yeah, I don't, I don't think it, it, it really matters, Julie, to be honest when I say that.
So I want to say that, um, last year we hit the button about 150 times, right?
So you, you make changes, you fix things, you hit it again.
Um, in my previous school, I use school brains, again, it would come out about 50% that first time you, you have, because they're not computers aren't perfect.
The algorithm is not perfect, right? There has to be human eyes on it because we have the institutional knowledge of how a school runs. And the goal is to, to each time you run it, you're, you're moving up the ladder.
So, you know, I'm not an expert on all school information systems.
And I, I think that one thing that people need to realize about, um, this is that it's not just a scheduler.
It is a grade book. It is what, um, central office uses to send data to the state on a daily basis.
There's a variety of platforms within power school.
Um, and that would be the same with other systems that other schools use like Aspen or school brains.
Um, but they're all fascinating and they all have really great parts to them and they all have kind of flaws to them, you know, so people kind of like them for different reasons.
Okay. Thank you for, uh, explaining that. Does anyone else have any questions on this, Adam? Adam? Thank you. This is a super robust presentation.
Super, super interesting to kind of see how the, the sausage is made on the schedule side. So, uh, thank you. It is clearly super complex.
Um, I I'm curious about, um, kind of a, a situation that maybe impacts us more this year, although maybe it's broader going forward, um, which is when we kind of voted to allow, um, kind of physical education waivers, um, for 11th and 12th graders.
Um, how does that fit into a schedule where like at what point do you do, do we need to start asking earlier?
Obviously that didn't happen this year, but, um, kind of ask earlier if they're going to apply for a waiver so that like, how do we know how to schedule that? Um, or did that just throw a major monkey wrench into?
Yeah.
No, I, I think that we can do some estimates based on the numbers we see of students that are participating in, um, MIAA sports, as well as, um, students that we know are either, you know, playing youth sports outside of the Hawk Mock league or dance chair, ice skating.
I mean, this community, one thing about this community is the students are incredibly involved and active.
So we have a pretty good sense about estimating numbers, but there's always going to be students that still want to take wellness.
And so that is a good point that you make Adam. And, um, I think for this year, I think, Oh, you know, there were things connected with budget as well, that made us look to this a little further in what other districts were doing, but I think that that is a good idea to survey students moving forward, um, to get a better sense for next year earlier.
Good.
Okay.
Uh, I'll be, um, thanks principal Keenan.
Um, I wanted first to just say thank you to you, um, for your hard work on this also to Bob Palmer, um, Emily Burke, Dr. Jocelyn, Dr. Botello, not unless on the schedule, but for taking the time to meet with Julie and I, um, not just, uh, in preparation for this presentation, but also over the last two years to sort of, as Adam put it, explain to us how the sausage is made. I think it's really important for this committee to see presentations like this, um, to have the opportunity to go in and meet with the administrators that are doing the ins and outs of the, you know, the, the whole operation.
And I also think it's really important for the community to see it, not only so that they can better understand, um, what goes into it and what might be the, might be the limitations where along the process, they might be able to get a better result on certain things.
Um, but also I do come from a perspective that, you know, we're all in this together, the, the school committee, the community administrators and our educators.
And, um, I always say that like our administrators aren't educated, our administrators and our other educators.
Um, and so I think the better, the more that we all understand what exactly goes in to everyone else's role, the more helpful it is. I did just want to call out, um, as part of that, that there are a lot of aspects to what it is that you all do with the schedule that are built around certain rocks and hard places that might be outside of your control, but might actually be within, um, central offices control or, or in some cases, this committee's control. And it's good for us to have presentations like this and also to keep going forward on conversations about, as you called out on your list, like some of these are contractual, some of them are budget. Um, some of them are operational decisions that we might make a, I mean, just for example, on our school choice conversation, a lot of that conversation does have impact on not just budget, but operations space and buildings.
Um, so the more that you can educate us over time as to exactly what you're coming up against and how we could, obviously, sometimes we won't be able to fix that, but in cases where we can do something differently at this table, in particular, just in the order of events, like one thing that I learned from our meeting, I think would be important for this committee to know is that the earlier in the process that we vote the calendar, the, the, that that's very helpful for you all in your process, because that's, that's an important step. Um, and so, you know, here we are not necessarily realizing that impact. We're, we're certainly worried about the community getting the calendar in their hands. Um, but so I, I thank you very much for laying that out on the level that you did and hope that we can continue to be educated on what it is that you all need from us in, at the building level so that we can continue to work together to get the best results for the kids. Yeah, I, I appreciate it. And I also, you know, I have to say in, in meeting with you all before we got some great ideas, right.
In, in terms of, uh, you know, cause I, I, I gave a much more technical presentation, um, before and it was longer, but you want to make it more palatable too, for the community.
So they do understand it and can understand it deeply. And, and when they have questions now, they may go, okay, this might align to this time period and what's happening here. And that might be part of it. So I appreciate all of the feedback on it as well. Thank you. Thank you. Um, are there any other comments, discussions?
Okay.
All right.
Um, well, thank you so much, Miss Keenan.
Um, really appreciate it. Um, and I guess we will move on to the next item on the agenda, which is policy JIH.
So I'm going to toss it to Dan.
Thanks, Julie.
Hi everyone.
We have some updates to JIH for a read and a possible vote tonight.
Uh, I'm representing the policy subcommittee in this presentation.
Uh, we appreciate time on the agenda as always.
JIH is our district's questioning and searches policy.
It governs how our schools interact with law enforcement.
Uh, separately, we have a memorandum of understanding agreement with Sharon's police department.
Uh, the current policy JIH doesn't reference that MOU, the updated policy, if we adopt it would reference the MOU and incorporate it. Uh, so there are two revisions, uh, we should highlight since we last reviewed the proposal on March 19th.
Uh, and can we pull the policy up on the screen? Would that be possible? I think that would probably be helpful.
Ah, thank you so much. So there are two revisions, uh, to what you're doing now, since we last reviewed the proposal on March 19th. The first is that at that meeting, we discussed a sentence that said the schools have legal custody of students during the day.
We talked about how the schools have a limited form of custody.
Uh, the courts call it in local parentis custody.
It means schools can make certain decisions, uh, but not other decisions for children when the parents aren't there. So school committee members at that March meeting correctly noted that that's not really a full legal custody as people usually understand that term, uh, like parents and guardians have. So there was a recommendation, uh, at the table that we remove that sentence as long as counsel agreed. Uh, counsel has been helping us draft this version since it's of a legal nature.
And, uh, the thinking was that that statement about custody wasn't really necessary for the policy. And it's subject to all this interpretation we've been talking about about what does custody really mean?
So, um, I'm happy to report that counsel agreed with our recommendation to just remove that sentence, keep it simple. So the, the version you're viewing tonight no longer includes it.
Uh, the second revision we should highlight is, uh, that when we went back to counsel and they reviewed a final time, uh, counsel asked us to add back a sentence, uh, from an earlier draft. And that sentence, uh, was what directed the schools to, uh, information share and notify law enforcement.
If a student had an impairment, uh, disability, a special need that could affect their rights around things like knowing waiver.
So, um, this would only apply in exigent circumstances because in all other circumstances now, our schools would require parents to be present for any questioning.
Uh, so that sentence, uh, our special education council CPAC, when we consulted them as a stakeholder had asked, uh, for us to include for special needs students.
So we were glad to include it at the time. Um, when we strengthened the policy, uh, to require that parents be present for any questioning, uh, we felt that, uh, it might no longer be necessary because the parents would be there. And they'd be able to advocate for their own kids. Uh, but counsel rightly pointed out that now in these exigent circumstances, uh, there might be some situations where parents aren't present because there's, they can't be. So we, uh, discussed it over with the administration and we all agreed that it would probably be good to just re-include that sentence because we, we want to make sure we're protecting all our students, but students who have special needs as well. Uh, so you'll see that sentence re-included as the second bullet point at the end of the policy.
And, uh, aside from those two sentences, the rest of the proposal is unchanged from when we last reviewed it in March. I think that covers, um, everything we discussed about the policy from last time. Uh, we did receive a suggestion during the public comment today.
Uh, if we could define the word exigent, uh, it's a reasonable suggestion.
Uh, so I had asked the same question to counsel, uh, when we were drafting the policy, if we should define the term. So, uh, counsel recommends that we don't try to define it. Uh, the reasoning is that it risks overstepping our authority and omitting certain emergency circumstances.
It's, it's difficult to, um, write a policy that would cover every single type of situation that could arise where police would need to act in an emergency.
Uh, so counsel recommends that we don't do it. Uh, but I'm comfortable just stating now on the record from my perspective that, uh, this, the word exigent does refer to emergency circumstances, not to situations like preserving evidence.
Uh, so that's in the record of the meeting now for what that's worth. Uh, counsel use the example of a bomb threat. So that's the type of thing that, that we mean. And, uh, I, I could imagine types of emergencies that aren't strictly speaking about safety. So things like preventing millions of dollars of damage to the school building, I, I think would count as an emergency, not strictly about safety. So that might be one reason not to try to limit it to certain types of emergencies, but, uh, I'm comfortable getting in the record that the word exigent does refer to emergencies, not to more mundane procedural type situation.
So it was a good question.
We appreciate it. Uh, this would be the last proposal of our policy cleanup initiative this year. Uh, the committee can always task the subcommittee to take up new topics, uh, but we don't have any pending right now. Uh, and that's all I have. So we can open the floor for discussion.
Thanks, Dan. And, uh, I'm, I'm really impressed at the, the thoughtfulness and yet speediness of how you've gotten through all these policies this year. So thanks. Thanks very much, Shauna.
You can you, Shauna, you're muted.
Oh, am I unmuted?
Am I good?
You're good.
Um, I just, if we're going to vote on this, I'm wondering if we want to, if there's any appetite to kick this to the next meeting so that the community can weigh in. I'm just thinking that there's been a lot of community, um, feedback about this policy.
So I, I just knowing that it's already 10 o'clock and we only have 28 people here and we're about half of them. Um, just wanted to put that out there. Okay. Thank you, Shauna.
Alan? Yeah. And we've got a piece of feedback in email today or yesterday from a parent that I thought was an interesting question. I don't know if it came up with council that in the event of an exigent circumstance, is there a, is there a process by which there'd be any effort on the path of the school district to at some point, either, you know, during or that immediately sort of thereafter the exigency to then notify the parents. Was that something that ever came up in discussion with council? Uh, yeah, it's, it's a good question.
And, uh, I've responded to all the parents who, who have written in about this topic. Um, yeah, council recommends, um, we, we don't try to limit what the police do in emergency situations.
Um, I, we, we've talked before about how the schools will make every effort to have the parents there regardless of the circumstance, but we just want to recognize that that there are emergencies where police have to act and we don't want to be restraining them. Um, so that's my understanding.
Good. Thank you, Alan. Avi? Yeah.
So I want to be very clear and careful in my wording here because I want, I want to be clear that any criticism I have on the process, how we got to this moment and of any of the actions of the policy subcommittee are said to the lens of, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the policy subcommittee and its members specifically.
And I have a tremendous amount of respect for Dan, the work that Dan does. I know that Dan is, is doing quite honestly.
I think the whole community has been able to see that Dan is doing his very best to try to hear all stakeholders on this issue and try to adjust. So my criticisms of process are not meant in any way to question the integrity of Dan or the rest of the policy subcommittee.
I do want to say I'm uncomfortable with how we got here because it is my belief that the policy subcommittee, um, should have been doing this work. Uh, I, you know, I witnessed real work being done on social media, um, which again, it has some merit, right? There were real community, uh, there's real community engagement in that. And I respect that. Um, but there are drafts that of this that have changed over time without the policy subcommittee weighing back in without policy subcommittee meetings in which the people that we've charged as a subcommittee to, to make these changes, have gone back and revisited it. Similarly, there's been advice from council that Dan has referenced multiple times, which could have been sent to the entire committee by council, not by Dan, but by council, which we have not seen. So with all due respect and Dan happens to be uniquely somebody that I would take the word of. Um, I don't know Dan to be a liar in any way whatsoever.
And so when he says council said this, I do almost implicitly accept it. I also, it's hard for me to accept that council wanted changes here or that council says, let's not go about things a certain way. Um, that members of the public have asked for, for me, it would be easier if I saw that with my own eyes to know that that was illegal advice we're paying for. Um, similar, you know, and then Dan, like, and again, this is, I respect the way you're going, but I know that there's no nefarious actions here or, and I don't think that there's any ethical issues, but, but when you say like you responded to each of those parents, obviously because of a meeting law, none of us see those. And so to me, these are conversations that I would have liked to have had at length in public at these meetings, which is where I think they belong.
And for the policy subcommittee to have, for me, I will just state that because I haven't seen that advice in writing because those conversations at times are not conversations that I can be part of. Even social media gets, it gets hairy because I'm not going to weigh in on it. And in times I'm not even going to read threads in that I think may then, uh, be substantive and affect my opinion.
I'm still unchanged on my original view, which is that I don't believe it's my role as a member of this committee to in any way curb the rights of parents over their children.
And so for me, I would still not be able to pass a policy that gives, that gives parents any less right to be present in any way whatsoever.
Thanks, Avi. Dan? Yeah, I don't mind the topic at all. I'm always happy to discuss process.
Um, I just wanted to respond to some of what Avi said in the interest of having that discussion.
Um, the way I view policy subcommittee and the way I understand we've, we chose at the outset to operate was that, um, the committee was charging the subcommittee to do work and prepare proposals to bring to the full committee.
Uh, so that's what we've done. Um, I'm not aware that anything you've suggested, while that might be your, uh, legitimate preference for how you envision subcommittee should run, uh, I'm not aware that any of that is a requirement for how subcommittees should operate.
I just view it as an optional process where the committee has delegated work, uh, to be done outside of the focus.
So the way I view subcommittees is there was an explicit decision by the committee to take this out of open committee sessions and go work on it. Um, and then to bring it back to the committee.
Um, if everything were to happen in the open involving the full committee, there's no purpose to the subcommittee.
So the whole value to me is getting this out of the full process so that we can run with it and get work done. Um, I, you know, I would ask the school committee to consider what we've brought you. Um, we can speak to the process.
We can speak to all that input. Um, but, you know, doing everything on a collaborative basis and involving everyone in every stakeholder discussion around the way, we wouldn't have been able to get anything done this year close to what we've been able to accomplish.
And, uh, we would not have been able to get all that rich feedback.
Um, you know, I've gone and talked with the police chief independently.
I've talked with CPAC. I've talked with the principals.
I've talked with the superintendent.
The list just goes on and on and on. There's no way we could do all that in an open session with the full committee.
And every time a stakeholder would make a change to the policy, we then have to go back to all the previous stakeholders.
So, um, that's my philosophy on subcommittees that we've been tasked to run with this outside of the, of the, of the open view of school committee meetings.
Uh, so we can make progress quickly and then bring it back to you, um, efficiently for a vote. So if that philosophy is not in line with what this committee wants, our subcommittee to do, we should definitely talk about that. So I'm not offended at all by, by the topic. I, I, I think we should discuss it.
Okay.
Um, Avi, finish it up.
And I, I respect that view. Like I said, I, I understand.
I, look, you haven't hid in any way what, how you're working on this. So I know it's not, I, I know it's how you, how you view it and I respect you're right. You, you might be right. And I could be wrong.
I can only say that when I sat on the policy subcommittee and Adam would confirm this, because we sat on it together and you guys sit on it together.
Now we would spend hours sometimes Veronica wise and myself and Adam Shane wordsmithing something.
And then we would vote. And sometimes two of us would vote yes. And one of us would vote no. And we would be voting to bring it to the larger committee.
And I will only say Dan, that when we touched a very hot button topic, which was camera, the right for police to access the cameras in our buildings, we actually had a meeting exactly like you're saying would be difficult to do. And it was difficult to do, but we did have the police chief there. And we did have many other stakeholders that you're referencing in town and they gave very different opinions, but it was all right there. And it got, and it wasn't an easy meeting and it got workshopped.
And to be frank, it changed. I was a holdout on certain aspects of that policy. And it did change my perspective.
And I think if anyone was curious as to like why I came to the larger table supporting something, they would have been able to access that meeting and see, you know, the police chief and I discuss back and forth why they would need access to a recording.
Because in my head, I'm like, you can have the live feed, but you can't have the recording. And the police chief says, we need to know what happened in the last 10 minutes before we go in, let's say. And I was like, thank you for teaching me something.
So again, my criticism of a process, it's not of your, in any way, your ethics or your, your intentions.
I respect the community's views on this, which I've seen. And I, and I have seen, I have seen your, as you have reshaped this, I've seen you build consensus with stakeholders.
And I respect that tremendously.
And I think that's part of the job that we have to do. I'm just stating that for me, not having seen things, something specifically, which may have changed my mind, I'm still in a place where I'm not going to support reducing parents' rights to be present.
Okay.
Thank you for that perspective.
So is there a motion on the table? I'll accept a motion if this is where, if people are ready to vote on this. Is anyone ready to vote on this?
Is anyone not ready to vote on this? I can make a motion.
I make a motion to accept the revision, the proposed revision to policy JIH.
Second.
Okay.
Dan.
Yes. Oh, Alan. I just wanted to say, Dan, I, you know, I said this last week and I, I still feel the same way. I appreciate the work that's gone into where we are now.
I do think it was a substantive revision from what we had last time we met. I think it was based on feedback that we got. I think people should have a chance to absorb the changes that were made, although I understand why some may feel they weren't, you know, as significant as other changes that have been made on this in the past. But I, I think given the level of interest in this particular policy and, you know, on sentences that we ultimately determine aren't even relevant, I think, you know, giving it, uh, the community another week to look at this or another meeting to look at this is not a bad thing. So I just want to get that out there.
Yeah. I'm not sure we're doing this in the right order. We had started voting.
Yeah, we were, I was, yeah, Alan, what would you, thank you. But what's your vote?
Oh, my vote's no.
Okay.
Vote's no. Okay.
Um, Adam, quick comment.
Yeah. I mean, you can take a motion and then discuss the motion.
But I guess my question is, is the, if we kind of vote no, collect more feedback, et cetera, is the expectation that we're going to come to the table next week with a, an iteration of the policy or just that we'll have given the public another week to look at it and then we'll be voting on the same policy?
Dan.
So, uh, I guess we could talk about Adam's question.
Um, I, I just want to remind the committee, this was the exact same suggestion we had at the last meeting when there was the option to vote and we decided to give the public another two weeks. Then that meeting got canceled and the public had another two weeks. So they've already had an additional month from what we originally planned.
And now we're suggesting to boost, push it back again. Um, you know, unless there's something about these revit, these two specific revisions, that is really a problem for anybody.
Um, I would, um, I would say, which the public did, did have the benefit of before, right?
Like this was discussed at the last meeting.
So I feel like we risk getting into this endless loop of delay and, and more public comment.
Um, I, I feel like we're in a position to vote it, but if people don't agree, I, we could, we should talk about that.
Okay.
Um, Avi.
So just, I have a comment.
I mean, I can vote if you want to call me, but we're still discussing.
I just, I just want to say, I agree completely with what Dan just said. Um, my vote, I don't see changing. Does that mean that it could never change? If there isn't something that can be shown that would change me, or if I saw those things that they might perhaps change my mind? Sure. And I guess all of these policies can be revised at any point, but I think to Dan's point that at each of these meetings, there's going to be somebody sometimes including myself, who's going to say, you know, if this one thing, and we're going to just keep going to this loop, we have given a tremendous amount of time to the public. And, and again, to try to make up a little bit for any of the criticisms I gave to Dan, I'd like to say Dan has done significantly more stakeholder engagement on this than I've ever seen on a policy.
So to be clear, I think, I think we're prepared to vote. I happen to be a no on it. But that does not mean I don't think we're ready to vote. Alan, I just want to say to be clear, the reason I voted no is because I think we should give it another week. I understand where Dan and Avi are coming from. I would point to the fact that we've got two emails, I think today, from members of the community with specific concerns about this particular policy. People's nature is to wait to the last minute sometimes on things or to be prompted by seeing things on the agenda that causes them to come forward. Is that right? Is that what we prefer?
No. Do we give into that on every occasion?
Certainly not, I'm not suggesting that.
But I also think I don't know that we can sit here and say that there's a harm to us or to our district by waiting for another meeting.
You know, the next meeting, we're going to get an email that day. Well, I'm assuming between now and the next meeting, there won't be a change to the policy.
Okay. Thanks, Alan. Maybe that's the wrong assumption.
Maybe there'll be another change to the policy.
I don't know.
All right.
Is there any more comments?
Questions?
Discussion?
Okay.
So right now, Dan has said yes. Alan has said no. And Avi said his vote would be no. So I'm assuming that if I ask you, you're going to say no. Yes. Avi? I'm a no. Thank you. Okay.
Jeremy.
Did I? I didn't, I didn't call you, right?
Okay.
Jeremy's a yes. Okay.
And Adam?
Adam?
I am a no.
Okay.
Shauna?
No.
Okay.
And it doesn't matter what I vote, but I'll vote, I'll vote no for another week.
So that is motion fails five to two.
Yes, Dan?
Can I ask a question for future policy process?
Sure.
Why was I tasked at the last meeting with making a very specific request of counsel incurring more costs, making a very specific limited revision if everybody was going to vote no? Because that was the direction I heard at the last meeting.
Like, what was the point of this extra month and extra expense with counsel and making that limited change if everybody was going to vote no anyway? Avi? I just, it's a fair question, Dan. I just want to say from the start of this till right now, I've been consistent that I was a no. So I hear you. But if in any way, my views led you to spend any more taxpayer dollar or any more time, just, I guess you read that wrong. I was always a no.
Okay. I'm not, I'm not bringing this back just so everybody knows I'm done. But, but thank you. I appreciate the time on the agenda.
Okay.
Um, we will move on. Thank you, Dan.
Um, now we are just going to do some decision items.
Um, so we have first have a vote to appoint Dr. Patello to be the, um, representative of Sharon public schools for the tech program.
I'll accept a motion.
So moved.
Thank you.
Second.
Shauna.
I had a question.
Sorry.
I tried to get it in. Um, Dr. Patello, do you foresee yourself as being the contact?
Should a new, uh, student services director be named?
Yes. Yeah. It's, it's, um, the majority of the, uh, representatives are superintendents there. Okay.
Cool.
Thank you.
All right.
Uh, so, okay.
Okay.
Thanks, Shauna.
Um, Dan.
Yes.
Uh, Jeremy.
Yes.
Um, Alan.
Yes.
Avi.
Yes.
Adam.
Yes.
And I'm a yes.
The motion carries seven to zero.
Uh, the next is, uh, uh, the next is, um, a vote to approve the minutes of March 19th, 2025.
Great.
Second.
Thank you.
Shauna.
Yes.
Dan.
Yes.
Jeremy.
Yes.
Alan.
Yes.
Avi.
Yes.
Adam.
Yes.
And I'm a yes. Um, so that's, I think I got everybody correct.
Okay.
Um, a, we, um, are going to vote to approve the overnight out of district field trip for the Sharon high school honor select choir, the Vox Anima program in London.
Um, so we will, which is a next year, March of next year.
So I'll accept a motion.
So moved.
Thank you. Thank you. Who was the second?
Oh, thanks.
Um, uh, Shauna.
Unbelievable.
Nice job, guys. Yes. Uh, Dan.
Yes.
Jeremy.
Yes.
Alan.
Yes.
Avi.
Yes.
Adam.
Yes.
And I'm a yes.
It's fun to have this, um, um, move like, and on a high note.
Are there, um, any announcements or updates before we, um, go into executive session?
Uh, yes.
Ms. Crosby.
Thanks.
I just want to remind everyone that pre-town meeting is, um, April 28th at 630 in person at town hall in the big conference room on the second floor.
Um, this is not the time to debate articles, but it is a great time to come and ask questions about articles and try and get some of those things answered ahead of time, as well as address logistics of the meeting.
Like if anybody thinks they're going to have a presentation for or against an article, like for example, the turf moratorium, this is where you'd want to let the moderator know and, you know, arrange the logistics of that. So, um, I think the community certainly knows town meeting is May 5th and also likely May 6th, but I'm not sure how many are aware of pre-town meeting.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Okay.
Um, and now I will take a motion to move us into executive session.
So, um, wait, hold on. Pursuing to MGL C 30A S 21 A 3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation with the STA and STA IA unit and to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation and CAD docket number, um, 25 B E M 000 0 8 6. If an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigation position of the Sharon school committee and the chair so it declares to return to open session.
So moved.
Okay.
Dan.
Yes.
Jeremy.
Yes.
Alan.
Yes.
Avi.
Yes.
Adam.
Yes.
Donna.
Yes.
And I'm a yes. I'll see you in a few minutes in executive session.
Thanks.
Okay. Thank you so much. And we are back from our executive session and we are pleased to announce that, uh, we have come to an agreement with the instructional assistance, um, bargaining unit and, uh, they have accepted and we have accepted and, um, um, we can move forward.
I will accept a motion to adjourn.
So moved.
Second.
Second.
Thank you.
Jeremy.
Yes.
Adam.
Yes.
Dan.
Yes.
Shana.
Yes.
Alan.
Yes.
Abby. Yes. And I'm a yes. Good night, everyone.
Those of you traveling, enjoy your vacation.
Enjoy your vacation.